Last post on Jan 28, 2013 at 5:55 PM
You are in the Sedans
What is this discussion about?
Audi A8, BMW 7 Series, Jaguar XJ-Series, Lexus LS 460, Mercedes-Benz S-Class, Volkswagen Phaeton, Maserati Quattroporte, Mercedes-Benz CL-Class, Sedan
Let's try to define this forum as being limited to luxury performance vehicles where the mainstream version in a typical configuration has an MSRP of at least $60k.
A luxury vehicle with a base price of $59k qualifies because it would typically be bought with some additional equipment, bringing the MSRP over $60k.
Vehicles like the E, 5, A6, M, or GS, even if available in certain versions over $60k, don't qualify because they are cars from companies that have higher end cars in their lineups.
#21082 of 24726 Re: Small is Beautiful [dewey]
Nov 16, 2006 (5:32 pm)
I have always been a compact car guy even though I'm 6'2".
The 545 is a great vehicle but I can run rings around it with a 325i. (Not talking about acceleration).
Compact cars are simply more agile than mid-sized vehicles.
Can't dispute those laws of physics.
I can see myself comfortably down-sizing next time around.
No more 5 Series unless BMW comes out with a diesel in 2008 which achieves raves.
#21083 of 24726 Re: Small is Beautiful [dewey]
Nov 16, 2006 (5:34 pm)
Agree on the Panamera. Porsche is making a mistake, IMO.
Man is that ugly! Shocking!
#21084 of 24726 Re: One Happy Family you all are with the HELM [oac]
Nov 16, 2006 (5:54 pm)
The 550i should be one sweet ride. Try it with the comfort seats if you can. Comfortable without being too soft.
You can't beat the BMW warranty- all factory recommended maintenance for 4 years, 50,000 miles. If you ever do need help with the BMW, you just press a button and you are blue-toothed to BMW. I have never needed to use it.
However, if you decide on the LS460, enjoy it.
#21086 of 24726 Re: One Happy Family you all are with the HELM [hpowders]
Nov 16, 2006 (7:02 pm)
Yeh, but what if you wanted to play it $mart and buy one a couple of years old? Only a hedge fund guy could afford the out-of-warranty maintenance expenses on say a 2003 7 Series.
On a not unrelated topic, I see a lot of people (although less now) driving American SUVs who clearly could afford a HELC, I wonder if, in addition to all the other reasons advanced for their popularity, some of the success of SUVs is the perceived rugged simplicity, won't complicate your life with electronic gizmos?
#21087 of 24726 Re: One Happy Family you all are with the HELM [blckislandguy]
Nov 16, 2006 (8:22 pm)
I think a lot of folks think SUV's can be pushed to extremes of daring that HELC's cannot.
Talk about being misinformed.
Yet I see it every day. The people driving most recklessly are the SUVers. Driving them like BMW 3 Series. Guess they didn't take physics 101.
#21088 of 24726 Re: One Happy Family you all are with the HELM [hpowders]
Nov 16, 2006 (8:59 pm)
The people driving most recklessly are the SUVers.
Morning moms with the kids on the way to school.
One hand holding the Starbucks, and the other holding the cellphone . . . look!...no hands on the steering wheel! ... Get outa the way!!!
#21090 of 24726 Re: Ala Merc plant dissappointing, but not state's fault[merc1] [thegraduate] [merc1]
Nov 16, 2006 (10:22 pm)
Agree with you on that the different brands are put their spin on the products even as they battle each other out in overlapping markets. That's essential to maintaining profit margin: product differentiation.
On the flip side most car companies are trying to match Toyota in reliability. BMW has the money and smarts to do it if they're serious about it.
Agree with the first sentence, but not the second one. BMW has neither the money nor the smarts nor even the right manufacturing circumstance to replicate Toyota's reliability. BMW is very good at maintaining profit margin, but the overall resource available to BMW is limited. BMW worldwide sales is only about $14 billion, whereas that of Toyota is $160 billion. It takes a lot of raw cash flow to engineer and test vehicle to tight tolerance and high reliability. The devil in the details costs a lot of money to be engineered out BMW probably can't even afford the army of process and quality control engineers that Toyota has. The overall R&D cost of a platform like the Civic/TSX/CR-V/RDX and Camry/ES/Highlander/RX cost $5-10 billion nowadays. If BMW or MB spend that much money on a platform, they'd have to quit making all other models. The overall R&D cost of ML/R/GL for example is less than $1 billion. That's why there are so many more bugs in the ML/R/GL compared to the higher volume platforms from Toyota and Honda. The Honda and Toyota production lines are much more automated. BMW on the other hand touts "flexible manufacturing," which means more work done by human labor on the production line. It's a completely different approach. I do not fault BMW for making that choice; it's a necessity due to lower volume: what's the point of installing a billion dollar of robots if the whole model is only expected to generate a few hundred million dollars in revenue?? However, that decision does have an adverse effect on final product quality. That explains why the domestics are having better luck than the Germans at improving product quality in the past decade. As much as we like to make fun of the domestics, they are better placed in the market place to emulate the Toyota/Honda success on quality than the Germans because the domestics have the volume/cash flow (even if little of that cash flow translates into profit)
#21091 of 24726 Re: Shall we throw another shrimp on the bar-b, matie? [tagman]
Nov 16, 2006 (10:44 pm)
What car is in that pictures? Doesn't look like any Harrier (RX) or Windom (ES) that I have seen.
More than a couple MB's probably had wind shield wiper failure in the middle of a down poor, like one of the magazine testers found on an ML; more than a couple 3 series probably had DSC failure that almost flipped the car, like another magazine editor found during a test. Not to downplay the significance of cars catching fire, but 2 out of millions of these two models sold is hardly relevent to the statistics. I will change my tune when one of those buggers catch fire during a magazine test