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Sedans High End Luxury Cars
24699 messages, Last post on Nov 30, 2009 at 6:41 PM
You are in the Sedans Forum. Your Hosts are pat & karens
Let's try to define this forum as being limited to luxury performance vehicles where the mainstream version in a typical configuration has an MSRP of at least $60k.
A luxury vehicle with a base price of $59k qualifies because it would typically be bought with some additional equipment, bringing the MSRP over $60k.
Vehicles like the E, 5, A6, M, or GS, even if available in certain versions over $60k, don't qualify because they are cars from companies that have higher end cars in their lineups.
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Replying to: brightness04 (Nov 09, 2006 8:32 pm) Hope this thread doesn't metamorphosize into something "new and improved" before I get back!  
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Based on the following quote it seems MB is taking reliability a bit more seriously than before expecially in the case of their new S Class : Lab workers put each new model's electronics system through a battery of 10,000 tests that run 24 hours a day and take three weeks to complete. One favorite tactic: Simulate what happens when a driver hits buttons all over the dashboard willy-nilly at the same time. "We try to come up with every strange situation possible," says Dieter Serries, Mercedes' head of development testing. Mercedes used the technique to ferret out more than 1,000 errors in the new S-Class, including one where the blinkers didn't function when there was no air conditioning system in the car. Says Zetsche: "You can find 99% of the glitches before a car ever hits the road." Unfortunately MB has a great cost disadvantage when compared to BMW and Lexus: But Mercedes still has a long way to go. Its costs per vehicle are as much as $3,800 higher than for comparable BMWs, says Ferdinand Dudenhöffer, director of the German Center for Automotive Research at the University of Gelsenkirchen. Much of that difference could be made up by standardizing design and manufacturing and sharing more parts, but Mercedes is a good five years behind the likes of BMW and Toyota Motor Corp. (TM ) in this arena. SOURCE:Businessweek
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Replying to: unknown (Nov 13, 2006 6:49 am) Doc, What's this? You've GOT to be kidding. TagMan |
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Replying to: designman (Nov 13, 2006 6:52 am) I completely understand. I'm very close to a 911 myself. But it would be my second 911 and my third Porsche. I've had a deposit in place for a few weeks now . . . 911 Carrera 4S Targa. So, I DO understand. TagMan |
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It's good to see everyone is still around. The changes have been confusing to say the least. Thank's Pat for speaking up and keeping a good thing going....
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Replying to: dhamilton (Nov 13, 2006 9:08 am) To the point. Thank you's are in order here. So . . . THANK YOU, PAT! AND . . . THANK YOU TO EDMUNDS MANAGEMENT.  TagMan |
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Replying to: dewey (Nov 13, 2006 8:08 am) Hi Dewey. Nice to hear from you. I too went into "read-only" mode for a while (just to be clear to everyone, not boycotting, just fell about 1700 messages behind while on vacation and never able to catch up; now Pat has given me an excuse to skip over the last 1700 messages! So if I say something already covered or miss some allusion to a previous post, please forgive me). Thanks for that link to the BusinessWeek article. I raised the question in that other short-lived forum (HELV or whatever) that nobody has really answered: is the still low ratings in CR for S more based on the average of the past 3 years (which includes '04-'06), so that any improvements made in '06 got overshadowed by the well-documented problems in '04 and '05? I'd like to believe that the earlier 2 years masked any significant improvement in the last year of production; this becomes very relevant if I wanted to consider a lightly used '06 some time in the future. Anyway, I am still hoping that MB has really righted themselves with the quality of the W221. This line from BusinessWeek gives me hope: Since electronics problems peaked in 2002, the number of flaws has dropped 72%, to about one per car. And warranty costs are down by 25% this year. "It's about doing things right 1 million times over," says Mercedes Chief Operating Officer Rainer Schmückle. But boy, all you have to do is look at the online "reader's comments" following that article and you see how far MB has to come to win back previous owners.
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Replying to: dewey (Nov 13, 2006 8:08 am)  Oh heck, keep us posted on it from time to time . . . I'm sure a little blurb or two won't destroy the forum.  Quote from BusinessWeek: But Mercedes still has a long way to go. Y'know . . . BusinessWeek is a great magazine, IMO. I subscribe to it, and love it. Remember that article about BMW I posted recently? That was also a good one, IMO. That quote from the article you posted makes us realize that while MB is on the right path, the final benefits won't show up for a while yet. But it is good news, nonetheless . . . especially in the wake of the recent CR report, which can't be helpful as it extends the poor quality reputation, even though it is more of a historical data report as opposed to a current one. Fortunately the current reliability is likely improved beyond what the CR report would have us believe. That should mark the end of those bad CR reports for MB, as future reports should start to reflect the current improvement . . . finally. Edit: I see garyh has made a good reply. Nice to see he has made it back to this HELC (?) forum. TagMan
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Replying to: houdini1 (Nov 13, 2006 7:00 am) Thanks Pat! M
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Replying to: tagman (Nov 13, 2006 9:44 am) True the new ML, R and GL (in that order) are built pretty well physically as far as their interiors and bodies go, especially the GL, but there are still many posts about problems with suspension (on models with Airmatic), nav systems, and even transmissions. That latter of which I don't get because other Mercedes' (E,S,SL,CLS,CL,C350 etc.) use the same tranny and there have been very few if any problems. Someone is still pinching pennies in Bama it showing up once again. Now with the GL450 Mercedes made a curious decision regarding Airmatic. Every other Mercedes that has Airmatic (S550, E550, all CLS models, E63, ML63) have the adaptive damping standard, but the GL450 has just airmatic with no adaptive damping standard, to get it you have to order the off-road package. That is the only major difference between the GL450's airmatic and say the S550s, and the GL450's airmatic has been troublesome and the S550's isn't. The MBworld forums on the new S-Class has no reports of any problems and some of these owners now have over 10K on their cars. Total opposite to when the W220 was introduced. With the new X5 BMW produces the same level of fit and finish here as they do in cars made in Germany. Why Mercedes won't (because I know they can) do that is beyond me. Oh well I'm not in charge of the plant. Why the ML and R have the old 5L V8 is beyond me also, a ML550 or ML450 should have been a given ditto for the R. Hopefully they'll do an early 08' model (next spring) with a sligh re-fresh next spring with the new V8(s). M
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