Last post on Jan 28, 2013 at 6:55 PM
You are in the Sedans
What is this discussion about?
Audi A8, BMW 7 Series, Jaguar XJ-Series, Lexus LS 460, Mercedes-Benz S-Class, Volkswagen Phaeton, Maserati Quattroporte, Mercedes-Benz CL-Class, Sedan
Let's try to define this forum as being limited to luxury performance vehicles where the mainstream version in a typical configuration has an MSRP of at least $60k.
A luxury vehicle with a base price of $59k qualifies because it would typically be bought with some additional equipment, bringing the MSRP over $60k.
Vehicles like the E, 5, A6, M, or GS, even if available in certain versions over $60k, don't qualify because they are cars from companies that have higher end cars in their lineups.
#2091 of 24723 Nikasil BMW Ring any bells?
Dec 10, 2002 (9:55 pm)
While on the subject of flagship marquees, you might want to do a Google search on "BMW NIKASIL" before making your decision. As recently as 1995 BMW had major engine problems that they tried to blame on inferior petrol. Funny, my wife's Mitsu runs regular and has had no engine problems while I, running Amoco white, had engine failure at 6 years, 6 months and 74k miles. I, being one of the lucky(?) owners of one of these will probably never own another BMW - at least not one out of warranty. I took my car to the dealer for all maintenance and they never alerted me to this potentially devastating problem. The car ended up running like an ill tuned model T and I traded for 5K under wholesale 'poor' condition even though the car looked and drove perfectly(except for an idle that would wake the dead and 0 to 60 in 5 minutes). I've owned plenty of German cars but this car single handedly drove me back to Japanese reliability - but that's not necessarily a bad thing.
Dec 18, 2002 (9:56 am)
Just read in interesting article in AutoWeek about the 745i. It turns out that the other cars that owners looked at were the
Mercedes Benz S55
All happen to be high powered (310+ hp) autos.
So it would seem that even though there isn't much talk about the Q45, there are folks out there still checking out the car. The LS430 and S500 weren't on their lists.
Which brings up another fact I came across on the BMW website. It turns out when you select the competitors to the 745, it only lists
Jaguar XJ Series
In this case, they left out the Mercedes Benz S-Class. From a price point, I guess it makes sense since the 745 is cheaper than the S500.
Looking at Carpoint, it looks like the income demographics for an S-Class ($185k) is much higher than the BMW 7-Series ($175k, no longer listed) and the LS ($145k). So even if the LS is trying to compete with the 7 Series and S-Class, the buyers are a lot different they maybe what marketing is expecting. The Q45 trails at around ($100k) even though marketing is trying to cater to an income demographic of $200k (Edmunds src).
So in the end, if you want status, get the Mercedes or MB/MayBach. Actually if you afford the Maybach, then the S500 is probably too cheap for you.
#2093 of 24723 Check out this 760Li From BMW Individual
Dec 18, 2002 (1:51 pm)
Very cool I think. I always liked the Black & White Individual model from this division. For those that don't know what I am talking about go to the BMW worldwide site and click the links for the program. (think designo from MB)...Any comments?
Dec 18, 2002 (2:29 pm)
I have always said that the new 7's interior is simply gorgeous. Wouldn't own one on a bet at this point (have you seen the depressing turn the 7 board has taken?), but it is a stunning piece of design ON THE OUTSIDE. Don't get me started on the rear exterior. (I can do w/o the stripes (inlay?) on the console).
Dec 18, 2002 (3:59 pm)
The stripes are what make it the Yacht interior. The standard 7 interior does not have the stripes.
#2096 of 24723 Misc Ramblings...
Dec 18, 2002 (11:16 pm)
The 7-Series BMW has been the single most styling disappointment I've ever seen from BMW in my 15+ years of being a fan of the brand. The car brings all types of engine and suspension technology to the table, but for the life of me I can't bare to look at the rear of the car. The front has become less severe with time, but that rear end is only palatable in black or dark blue. Strangely enough though, the car also makes a statement in white, I mean it's get the looks and fingers pointing....though I'm not sure all are saying it's a "good" looking car.
The 2004 BMW 5-Series is where the straw will be broken. So far it looks even worse!
The S-Class has always been on another level as far as it's average buyer;s demographic is concerned. One basic reason for that is the price, it starts where all the rest top out (except the 760Li). The S55 has moved further upmarket with 493hp and 107K sticker. I've driven the S500 and thought it was good enough, I can't image how a 191 hp increase must feel!
The Q45 is a very interesting car. Infiniti messed up on the marketing of it though. It was never as sporty as a 7-Series or an S55, and for all it's 340hp it's no faster than similar cars with less power. No large car marketed as a sports sedan has been a success, except for the 7-Series. Even the 7-Series has started to place more emphasis on luxury with each re-do. Infiniti should have marketed the Q45 as a luxury car first, with a touch of sport. Why can't Infiniti get their transmissions right? The M45 is a midsize car with 340hp and it's actually slower than the way less powerful E500, GS430, and 540i.
All is not lost at Infiniti. They are doing great on the lower end. The G35 is a hit, and rightly so. I'm forced to drive this G35 Coupe the first chance I get. The FX35 and FX45 look to be potential winners also. Infiniti, like Acura just can't get any respect past 40K.
Dec 18, 2002 (11:21 pm)
Anybody else notice that the Maybach's rear end is similar to that of the BMW's 7-Series, but for some reason, it actually works better than the BMW's?
Dec 18, 2002 (11:23 pm)
merc - "Infiniti, like Acura just can't get any respect past 40K."
Unfortunately, it's true. The 88K NSX is way overpriced and the RL, Acura's only true luxury sedan, really doesn't stack up well against the competition. Honda needs to figure out if it wants to run with the likes of Buick or BMW. I think right now they assume they can run with both.
Dec 18, 2002 (11:25 pm)
Yep thats true, it's the same sitting-on-top trunklid, but the Maybach looks so much better, at least in the rear. The Maybach could have looked a little more exciting too, but I'll reserve final judgement until I get to Detroit.
Dec 18, 2002 (11:38 pm)
Well I guess for right now they don't see themselves as having a "problem". They are selling for the most part a lot of TLs, MDXs and RSXs.
The RL needs a V8, but Honda says that isn't going to happen. There really isn't anything "wrong" with the RL, its just being a "good" or "decent" car doesn't cut it against the E320, 530i, GS300, and A6 2.7t. Not to mention the V8 versions of those cars. The only reason it sells at all is because you can easily get 5-7K off it's sticker. The CL (boy I had hopes for this car) doesn't even look as good as the TL sedan, how bass-ackwards is that. They may drop it, but that too would be a mistake with all the 2-doors coming...it would be another segment they "gave up" on. I can't say it enough, bring back the "Legend" name and make the car worthy of the title and Acura would be back in style again.
The NSX was a stunning piece of work compared to the 1991 Ferrari 348 and 993 series Porsche 911, but times have changed. Ferrari stomped a mutthole in NSX with the F355 and they sealed the coffin with the 360, and Porsche did a complete re-do of the 911. The Acura is basically a 12 year old car with the a price thats totally unrealistic.
I still hold Acura as my favorite of the 3 Japanese luxury brands, with the TL-S being my favorite fwd luxury car. They just keep letting me down, with terrible styling and nothing to really "lust" after.