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High End Luxury Cars

24723 messages,  Last post on Jan 28, 2013 at 6:55 PM

You are in the Sedans Forum.

What is this discussion about? Audi A8, BMW 7 Series, Jaguar XJ-Series, Lexus LS 460, Mercedes-Benz S-Class, Volkswagen Phaeton, Maserati Quattroporte, Mercedes-Benz CL-Class, Sedan



Let's try to define this forum as being limited to luxury performance vehicles where the mainstream version in a typical configuration has an MSRP of at least $60k.

A luxury vehicle with a base price of $59k qualifies because it would typically be bought with some additional equipment, bringing the MSRP over $60k.

Vehicles like the E, 5, A6, M, or GS, even if available in certain versions over $60k, don't qualify because they are cars from companies that have higher end cars in their lineups.

Messages Page 2072 of 2473

#20710 of 24723 Tag by drfill

Nov 03, 2006 (5:26 pm)

"Targeting BMW" implies making cars designed to compete with BMWs in their realm, which I don't see happening.
 
   The only thing the IS shares with the 3 is a similar size.
 
   The GS and 5 couldn't be more different in countenance or comportment.
 
   The LS has a similar, but far superior, rear end, but is different in every other way. Lexus isn't making the LS a super sports sedan. The LS is a luxury car, first, and foremost. Not a BMW-type car.
 
   Taking market share from BMW, and targeting BMW are two different things. The New IS doesn't "target" the 3 any more than the IS300. If anything, it took a step back, giving up the inline six, and manual tranny, and many of the intangible driving dynamics inherent in the Altezza.
 
   Lexus is not, and will not make BMWs. If Lexus "targets" BMW, IMO, it will lose touch with it's own successful strategy. Lexus is doing it right, regardless of wheteher the IS is a true sports sedan or not.
 
   I vote not....yet. It has all the potential in the world.
 
   Here's hoping we get more of a good thing in 2008.
 
   DrFill

#20711 of 24723 Re: Tag [drfill] by tagman

Nov 03, 2006 (5:35 pm)

Replying to: drfill (Nov 03, 2006 5:26 pm)
"Targeting BMW" implies making cars designed to compete with BMWs in their realm,
 
Not exactly. In their "near" realm and "perceived" realm is often plenty, especially with a company like Lexus, who has so many other things going for it.
 
Taking market share from BMW, and targeting BMW are two different things.
 
Not necessarily. It depends upon the strategic goal . . . and with Lexus, it is likely about coming close enough to take sales away. The different cars we are talking about are in different "segments". Lexus wants to be a player in these different segments. Even the SC is an attempt at a "segment". Does it target the SL? It is NOTHING near as good as the SL, or is it in your opinion? And if it weren't so ugly, would it take more market share?
 
Point is, that the IS doesn't have to be a clone to compete in the segment, and the IS and 3-series share a similar arena. The IS indeed has targeted the 3-series, in terms of segment AND sales, just as the LS has targeted the 7-Series and S-Class in terms of segment and sales.
 
Lexus is not, and will not make BMWs.
 
They don't need to. They are already doing what is necessary. Make vehicles in the different segments that are competitive enough to win over the hearts and/or minds of consumers in order to gain market share.
 
TagMan

#20712 of 24723 Re: Tag [tagman] by

Nov 03, 2006 (6:04 pm)

Replying to: tagman (Nov 03, 2006 5:35 pm)
So then you agree with me?
 
   The GS "targets" the E-Class as much as it "targets" the 5-series.
 
   The IS "targets" the C-Class as much as the 3.
  
   The LS obviously "targets" the S-Class more than the 7, or at least I would hope so.
 
   DrFill

#20714 of 24723 Re: Just Back [tagman] by brightness04

Nov 03, 2006 (6:05 pm)

Replying to: tagman (Nov 03, 2006 4:44 pm)
Cars of the world are not neatly lined up single-file from the worst to the best . . . worst in what? and best in what? At every price point, there are competing design goals and target audience to be met, every vehicle is a compromise. If handling is the only thing people want, BMW would not exist or succeed at all . . . Go-carts, Lotus Exige, Corvette all offer better handling than BMW's at the same price points. Buyers typically make a compromise choice among reliability, comfort, safety, luxury, performance (which can be subdivided into handling and accelearation). "Best" and "good enough" are only really meaningful in specific categories. For example, some think BMW's are good enough for reliability . . . some think Lexus are good enough for handling . . . some think BMW is good enough for accelearation . . . some think BMW is good enough for luxury . . . some think BMW is good enough for comfort, etc. etc.

#20715 of 24723 Re: Tag [tagman] by brightness04

Nov 03, 2006 (6:11 pm)

Replying to: tagman (Nov 03, 2006 5:35 pm)
SC is not targetted at SL at all . . . just look at the bench seat in the back. If one has to pick an MB model and call that what Lexus was aiming at, CL would have been the closest.

#20716 of 24723 Re: Tag [] by brightness04

Nov 03, 2006 (6:14 pm)

Replying to: unknown (Nov 03, 2006 6:04 pm)
And as a side show to the three-tier segmentation, Lexus also approach the market with ES and RX, so that they do not have to make compromises to the platforms in order to make products like 525i possible. So yes, Lexus slices and dices the market place a little differently from the other makers . . . which was what making me all the more surprised to see that IS sales alone almost caught up with 3 series sales. Holy smokes!

#20717 of 24723 Re: Just Back [tagman] by houdini1

Nov 03, 2006 (6:22 pm)

Replying to: tagman (Nov 03, 2006 5:24 pm)
Different strokes for different folks. In my mind I can't understand why anyone would settle for a BMW or Mercedes when they could have a Lexus. But I guess some feel that the BMW or Mercedes is good enough for them. Go figure.

#20718 of 24723 Re: Tag [brightness04] by tagman

Nov 03, 2006 (6:39 pm)

Replying to: brightness04 (Nov 03, 2006 6:11 pm)
SC is not targetted at SL at all . . . just look at the bench seat in the back. If one has to pick an MB model and call that what Lexus was aiming at, CL would have been the closest.
 
Not a chance.
 
The SC's rear seats were included to classify the vehicle as a four-passenger, but there was never any intention for it to be truly functional, as it proves itself to be dysfunctional.
 
The CL, while a little tight, is a fully-functional four-passenger vehicle.
 
BIG difference.
 
Most all the original comps to Mercedes, when the SC appeared on the scene, were regarding the SL.
 
TagMan

#20719 of 24723 Re: Just Back [brightness04] by tagman

Nov 03, 2006 (6:42 pm)

Replying to: brightness04 (Nov 03, 2006 6:05 pm)
Cars of the world are not neatly lined up single-file from the worst to the best
 
Unless you are the editors of Car & Driver magazine! Or perhaps Consumer Reports editors to a small degree. Who is it that lists the "Ten Best Cars" every year?
 
Seriously though, what's your point? Where could someone find such a line-up anyway? Unusual idea, to put it politely.
 
TagMan

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