Last post on Jan 28, 2013 at 5:55 PM
You are in the Sedans
What is this discussion about?
Audi A8, BMW 7 Series, Jaguar XJ-Series, Lexus LS 460, Mercedes-Benz S-Class, Volkswagen Phaeton, Maserati Quattroporte, Mercedes-Benz CL-Class, Sedan
Let's try to define this forum as being limited to luxury performance vehicles where the mainstream version in a typical configuration has an MSRP of at least $60k.
A luxury vehicle with a base price of $59k qualifies because it would typically be bought with some additional equipment, bringing the MSRP over $60k.
Vehicles like the E, 5, A6, M, or GS, even if available in certain versions over $60k, don't qualify because they are cars from companies that have higher end cars in their lineups.
#20630 of 24726 Car mags...
Nov 01, 2006 (3:58 am)
I always smile when new models are being introduced. It is about the only time that the rags and even sometimes the manufacturers will tell you what was wrong with the outgoing models. A Lexus exec even said that the outgoing LS was not up to some other luxury cars.
They all sing the praises of the current model until the new one comes out. Then, "Well this new model takes care of the heavy nose, or the bad brakes, or not enough power, etc.
A lot ot truth to that idea! But sometimes the weaknesses are only seen by contrast to the latest and greatest version itself . . . so it was never really seen as a weakness in its own time.
Even more interesting.
I think both viewpoints are valid depending on the vehicle in question.
I notice that with the new CL the writers and a Mercedes exec (like a Lexus exec before him) is saying unflattering things about the old CL, design wise that is. Design wise the outgoing CL was praised all across the world, it even won several European design awards, but now Holger Hutzenlaub is saying that old car was too conservative and didn't look the part. The old CL is easily regarded by most Benz fans as one of Mercedes' best looking cars of the last 20 years, but now it didn't look right? Right.
Not every new car gets this type of treatment relative to the old one though. Various GM, Nissans (new Sentra C&D Dec) and more germane to this thread the 5-Series didn't get instant praise over their immediate predecessors. C&D has come around to the 5-Series in recent comparos, almost putting it in 1st place, but there is a problem: the M45. If it weren't for this car they'd now be singing the praises of the 5-Series, now that the car is going into its 4th model year.
Automobile Magazine stated flat out that they liked the previous W124 E-Class (1986-1995) better than the W210 (1996-2002) E-Class and they did so for years after the W210's introduction. This sentiment was echoed by more than a few owners also. I agreed with this also, still do when it comes to most things about the W210 relative to the W124.
Then you have cars like the Saturn Ion which truthfully is just a piece of junk so there is no way its replacement could be any worse so the new model praise will be fully justified. Off thread I know, but it is one outstandingly crappy car!
Oh, the Infiniti M45 comes to mind too. Compared the place-holder model Infiniti first brought over the new model is in another league.
How could I forget Acura. The press moaned big time when the Acura Legend was replaced by the RL and while the press has come around to the car this last time around, buyers have been moaning every since for the Legend.
#20631 of 24726 Re: Car mags... [merc1]
Nov 01, 2006 (4:06 am)
Not every new car gets this type of treatment relative to the old one though. Various GM, Nissans (new Sentra C&D Dec) and more germane to this thread the 5-Series didn't get instant praise over their immediate predecessors.
Yeah in their "best and worst automotive makeovers" list, the GM "big nose" minivans, and Impala were listed as being worse than the cars they replaced, at least styling wise. Interestingly, they had this to say about the new Camry:
"Toyota took the bestselling car in America, the inoffensively styled Camry, and in an effort to make it appear more upscale for 2007, grafted on a ponderous schnoz and a cellulite-puckered rump, the latter crime more grave. The result looks like an aging starlet who’s had work done, only to be exposed and damned by the invention of HDTV."
That I don't really agree with. At least in SE trim, the new Camry doesn't look bad. Also, the old car was the styling equivalent of packaged cheese slices. I don't see how you can do "worse" than that.
#20632 of 24726 Re: Car mags... [lexusguy]
Nov 01, 2006 (4:11 am)
Yeah I don't know what they're talking about there. The new Camry is the best looking Camry ever, especially in SE trim. I still glance at them when I see one, unheard of for a Toyota in my eyes. The only thing I see really wrong with it is that in SE trim it needs bigger tires to fill out the body add-ons, but that can be fixed very easily with a nice set of rims. Secondly is that front emblem placement, it is wrong, that I agree with, but they couldn't put it in the middle of the grille otherwise it would look too much like a Lexus. Not sure what they could do to fix that.
Also, the old car was the styling equivalent of packaged cheese slices.
Lol. Don't ever stop with the creative descriptions!
#20633 of 24726 Diesels, Hybrids, EPA...
Nov 01, 2006 (4:19 am)
An interesting tidbit from the Carconnection.com:
For instance, the 2006 Mercedes-Benz E320 CDI posts EPA estimates of 27 city, 37 highway, for a combined figure of 30, yet owners (seven of them so far) report an average of more than 33 mpg. The 2007 version I drove, with its updated Bluetec engine that will be 50-state compatible next year with a new urea-injection system to cut nitrogen oxide emissions by 80 percent, posts 26 city, 37 highway, also for a combined figure of 30 mpg. In a recent 300-mile test-drive of an E320 CDI Bluetec, we saw an average of more than 33 mpg. That included about 85 miles of around-town driving, split over several days, with several puff-free cold starts (the aluminum-block engine warms up quite quickly) and several just-for-kicks full-throttle launches, along with a Saturday highway loop that included a variety of roads, including 70-mph expressway driving, creeping through small towns, and slaloming up and down a national-forest road to a trailhead. On that 300-mile day loop, we averaged more than 35 mpg, indicating that for the highway driving we were running around the 40-mpg mark for much of the time.
#20634 of 24726 Re: Car mags... [lexusguy]
Nov 01, 2006 (4:55 am)
I have yet to see the SE Camry trim but I have seen plenty of LE's and I agree with the writer from C&D.
As I have posted before, the rear of the new Camry looks cheap and ugly to me. I much prefer the older design-conservative but not embarrassing.
However, Toyota designers got it right with the Avalon.
Smart looking, front and rear.
#20635 of 24726 Re: Diesels, Hybrids, EPA... [merc1]
Nov 01, 2006 (5:03 am)
It is quite refreshing to see a fuel efficient car with EPA ratings that are actually conservative, rather than at best hopelessly optimistic, and at worst outright lies. I wonder how it would do with an E350 Sport spec suspension and wheels\tires?
#20636 of 24726 Re: Diesels, Hybrids, EPA... [lexusguy]
Nov 01, 2006 (5:08 am)
I wonder how it would do with an E350 Sport spec suspension and wheels\tires?
Good question. There are more than a few prospective E320 Bluetec owners on MBWorld that are upset about the E320 not being available with the sport package which is for 07' (gasp!) a no charge option. I guess the bigger wheels/tires would bring the MPG numbers down some and MB seems to be going for maximum efficiency with the E320 Bluey.
#20637 of 24726 Re: Diesels, Hybrids, EPA... [merc1]
Nov 01, 2006 (5:12 am)
Interesting. One of the plusses of an AWD LS460 possibly not being out until late CY2007 is that there will be more alternatives available to consider....not just a new 7, but maybe an S diesel? I have heard the next 7 would be available AWD, though it isn't clear if that would be out of the gate. Is a diesel S going to be offered AWD?
And most importantly of all, will the owner have to endure urea jokes, like "if you run out of urea can you pop the hood and piss into the car?"
#20638 of 24726 Re: Diesels, Hybrids, EPA... [syswei]
Nov 01, 2006 (5:32 am)
I think that once they get around to offering a S320 Bluetec it will be offered with 4Matic. The current European S320 CDI has a 4Matic option.
#20639 of 24726 Re: Car mags... [hpowders]
Nov 01, 2006 (5:54 am)
It sometimes takes a while for a new design to grow on me so I am patient. I am still waiting on the new Camry, but so far I still don't like it very much. The grill just sort of ruins it for me ( evokes a 50s' circa Studabaker) and the whole car just looks sort of bloated.
I must be especially sensitive to grills because there are quite a few that I don't like:
1. Honda Accord- This car really doesn't have a grill. If you look at one head on and up close about all you see is the radiator.
2. Audi- I don't think I will ever get used to that big mouth look.
3. O7 MDX- A brilliant car/truck except the nose looks like a big chrome cheese slicer.
For me, simple is better.