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Sedans High End Luxury Cars
24697 messages, Last post on Nov 28, 2009 at 3:09 PM
You are in the Sedans Forum. Your Hosts are pat & karens
Let's try to define this forum as being limited to luxury performance vehicles where the mainstream version in a typical configuration has an MSRP of at least $60k.
A luxury vehicle with a base price of $59k qualifies because it would typically be bought with some additional equipment, bringing the MSRP over $60k.
Vehicles like the E, 5, A6, M, or GS, even if available in certain versions over $60k, don't qualify because they are cars from companies that have higher end cars in their lineups.
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I honestly don't know about it being in sport mode. I did two drives in it and in the interest in keeping the lines moving, I mostly just fiddles with seat adjustments. FWIW, I thought about it but then when getting in to the S class I thought to myself there is no way in hell I'll find the sport mode in the next 10 minutes trying to rifle through all the command prompts so I figure that all cars were in normal mode so as to be even. Again, the bimmers tranny hunted the most. The LS was [is]an excellent car. I never felt it complained about being thrown it to curves fast, and it powered out nicely. I really can't say enough positives about the car other than the grabby brakes. It's no brakes, no brakes, oh crap, a ton of brakes. Ultimately, it's not the "drivers car" that the S class is, but it's very good. All comments [to state the obvious] are just my opinion, but to clarify about the LS feeling better in the curves, the IS may have more grip numbers wise but it didn't feel as composed. I'm not so much talking about body motions because it stayed flat. There was just something about the car that felt wrong to me on many levels once it got moving. Keep in mind that about two weeks ago I did the BMW event and drove the 335 VERY HARD around an autocross track in almost the exact same spot. I also did a quick spin in a new [demo at my dealership] G sedan with sports package, and both felt 100 times more "screwed down" than the IS. The GS350 is the best sporty offering from Lexus IMO. The LS is the second LOL.
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Replying to: dhamilton (Oct 28, 2006 6:32 pm) That car had the perfect balance of fun and comfort that most car companies dream about. But the ergonomics proved too much for this ol' fart and it had to go for one with slightly less buttons but easily figured out, A8L W12. On to the the LS, a buddy of mine found that the LS he drove is better than the 430 it replaces, but Lexus still forgot to give it enough calcium so that it's bones will be more sturdy when taking corners. The new 4.6L V8 VVT-i was found to be a remarkable powerplant with cutting edge technology such as direct and port EFI and electric VVT(on intake only tho), and with it's sonorous sing that will entice any gearhead to ride with the windows down. But it's been said it doesn't have that big-displacement nudge-in-the-back you get with the Americans or German V8's. And altho with 8 ratio, the tranny sometimes shifted without haste, and hunted frequently in rapid transitions, while the 7-G Mercedes shifts with aplomb in all conditions. But for all-out highway crusing, the quieter, softer LS holds the bar on it's German competitors, albeit not by much, especially a LWB Audi. And the interior decor/assembly is worth more than just noting. We can go back and forth all day on why the LS460 is or isn't the best, but Lexus really came a long way with this over it's predecessor. I'm not jumpin ship or anything, but judging from what I've read and heard from you guys and everyone else, this car will keep the button pushed down for Lexus for some time to come.. I personally can't wait to go to Altmer's Lexus to drive the 460L to gauge my own reaction and on a longer drive than what the Taste gives.... BTW: Did anyone notice or know that the LS460's engine bay is completely concealed, top and bottom? Ingenious!!!! And that's how they acheive that coefficient drag of only .28, BETTER than a RX-7, 97-04 Vette, and Porsche 911, and we're still talking a 4200 pound car!!!!!!
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Replying to: dhamilton (Oct 29, 2006 4:17 am) And hopefully, I won't get that lame "fuel econ" excuse, as the 450h squeaks out maybe 2-3mpg at best. The simpler 3.5L V-6 with 306 horses the better buy than all GS'. Maybe when the 460 comes out, we'll be singing a different tune. But if they haven't fixed the brakes or steering on the V8's, GS350 in black please.......
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Replying to: blkhemi (Oct 29, 2006 6:56 am) Given your sport predilictions, you might want to see if they have a Touring model available to test drive. Bigger and wider wheels, but I still don't know if the suspension differs from the AVS-equipped models. Also, I'm not sure the Touring is even available yet.
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Replying to: syswei (Oct 29, 2006 7:38 am) But the bigger wheels and tires may help the LS be more fluid(and less flaccid) in the twisties. And I still have not seen anything indicating that the suspensions will be different. |
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After a brief floor plan lesson, I'm out to test drive, not eat pastries!  There are 4 LS460/L to drive, 2 750i, and one S550 are available, so the line for the S is about 45 minutes. After a scoot in the IS350 (no MT 250 was avilable), I drove the 750i, as the line was shortest here. Had a approx. 500 ft. straightaway for what was labeled "Acceleration Run". The straight was not flat, and the braking area was marked at about 300 ft., so I got to about 50-55MPH before braking, all too soon. The BMW broke out fast, but midrange didn't impress, but it had plenty of power. The handling section was fairly difficult, and the car had no problem with it. Couldn't tell if the skid systems were activated. Next was the Lexus LS460L. It didn't run as hard from the blocks, but the midrange was much better than the 7. It felt slower than the 7. But it's handling was not far behind. I disabled the skid control, and yes, I has it on Sport and Power modes. There was a large radius 180, a tight 180, and a 3-turn slalom. Then I tested the S550, which had more heart than either vehicle! No replacement for displacement! It also seemed quite happy on the handling course. And it had acres of legroom. No real dynamic weaknesses, it's just not very appealing to me, inside or out. Then I drove the LS460 SWB before driving the RX400h and SC. This car accelerated similar to the 750, but with the same midrange the other LS had, so it seemed faster. Not as fast as the S, but close. My estimates are: IS350 5.2 S550 5.4 750i 5.7 LS460 5.6 LS460L 5.8 BTW, the IS350 drove well. No demons in the steering, and strong quiet brakes!  I had no problems with the LS' footwell, brakes, or tranny. They all seemed appropriate for the mission. This just in........For 2007......the S550's rear end ......has replaced the 750 for ugliest in HELMdom.......Lincoln Mark III-VII sues for design infringement.....more next hour.... Surprise of the day? The SC430! It was quite the kick in the pants! I would call it "Snappy"! No squeal from the run-flats, and I was puttin' it down! RX400h was as quiet as a dinner napkin at the start light! Very powerful.  So in closing, I didn't really learn too much, but the SC and IS drive better than I had been led to believe. The SC is powerful, and roomy (I'm well over 6'!). The IS is not roomy, but wickedly powerful, and would make any garage a better place to spend time!  You can only learn so much from a 30 second drive, but if Lexus is a very confident company, it is very easy to see why. The Germans drive great, but their designs are not cohesive or well-thought out, inside or out. If you are looking for nits on the LS, you've got your work cut out for you. The interior, and exterior, are in another league above the Germans on hand. Other than the torque on the S550, the LS is equal to, or superior in every way from what I could tell. And the style is clearly more advanced. The Germans came off as well-built, but rather complicated. The LS was more stylish and had a finely crafted way about it. Easy to use, easy to drive, easy to like. And with the windows up, you could get a good whiff of engine note in the cabin. This is a good ting! I will now take your questions..... DrFill |
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Great parody on the 0-60 numbers! Why just yesterday, I do believe I did a 5.1 in my 545. |
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Replying to: drfill (Oct 29, 2006 11:52 am) To be respectful . . . thanks for taking the time to write all that stuff. To be honest . . . little of it makes any sense to me. I'll read it again later, and hopefully . . . somehow . . . just somehow . . . maybe I'll understand it all a little better. Must be the beer I chugged in under 2.5 TagMan |
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Did you chug those beers in celebration of the Raiders victory over my beloved [but pathetic] steelers?
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Replying to: drfill (Oct 29, 2006 11:52 am) That is very impressive that you took the time to write that extensive report, but my only question is how you can consider the LS styling more advanced than the S550 when the S-Class is larger and has a lower coefficient of drag? I understand if you prefer the styling because that is a very personal thing but to say it is more advanced is incorrect. Also I don't understand how you can say the German cars are not cohesive inside and out, I have always felt that way about Lexus. This is all purely opinion of course, as any design analysis is, but the curves of the exterior are mirrored on the outside in both the BMW and Mercedes-Benz while Lexus has nothing of the sort. Regardless the LS460 is a simply phenomenal vehicle for the price I agree, I would still say the Germans are superior, however.
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