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Sedans High End Luxury Cars
24700 messages, Last post on Dec 01, 2009 at 12:24 PM
You are in the Sedans Forum. Your Hosts are pat & karens
Let's try to define this forum as being limited to luxury performance vehicles where the mainstream version in a typical configuration has an MSRP of at least $60k.
A luxury vehicle with a base price of $59k qualifies because it would typically be bought with some additional equipment, bringing the MSRP over $60k.
Vehicles like the E, 5, A6, M, or GS, even if available in certain versions over $60k, don't qualify because they are cars from companies that have higher end cars in their lineups.
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Lexus really starts of the day right by reinforcing their status as a very high class company. They even truck in their own tents and decor so as to make a very modern, but warm reception. Everything from the food, to those on hand to direct traffic were on par with a classy company. Their were 3 sections for driving. 1. LS460, with a 7 series, and an S class for comparison. Their were numerous LS's to drive to keep the lines moving. [Mostly long wheel base] The line for the 1 S class backed up quite a bit. 2. IS 250,350, GS350,450h 3. ES, RX350,4ooh,SC430 First up The IS 350. Upon climbing in to the cabin and driving it about 150 yards to the starting line, I was very impressed with the cabin fit and finish. Very well done and comfortable. When given the OK I accelerated hard, and then braked for the first corner and the realization hit me that this car is a hilarious joke as a sports sedan IMO. The steering is beyond words artificial, and the chassis under steers like Dick Cheaney has accidental shootings on hunting excursions. I won't waste any more words on this joke of a car. GS 350. Hpowers, LG and others are right on about this car. It's the most sporty of the bunch. The best steering, descent chassis and great acceleration once you start to make revs. GS450h. It's everything that everyone says. Beyond the forceful acceleration I've already forgot about driving it. BMW 7 series. I think someone loaded a bunch of buttons and control knobs in a shotgun, and shot the dashboard and general vicinity. This car is an ergonomic nightmare. IMO Drfill has it nailed. This car is not aging graciously. The transmission hunted for gears and it didn't feel all that great after driving the LS and S class. Lexus LS460. Spending this kind of dough on a car should get you a unique car. Unfortunately to my eye is looks to much like a 40k ES. It drives awesome, however, The brakes are grabby. The interior is first class. The ergonomics are so superior to the Germans that it's almost a knife being brought to a gunfight, especially in the case of the 7 series. Acceleration is very strong, and this car feels very light on it's feet. On a side note, Lexus is very big on everything you read for a particular model having 0-60 times posted. They are geniuses in the American market knowing that most Americans measure performance simply in terms of acceleration. That and constantly hearing, and seeing demos of the car parking itself. BFD IMO. All that to say, the LS is an excellent car. It feels better through corners than the IS IMO. S class. The interior isn't as warm as the LS but it's simply more of a drivers car. More buttoned down all the way through the track. My butt dynometer says that the S is a fair amount quicker than the LS, and the tranny smoother and quicker. When I got out of it, I had to turn around and really make sure I just drove a car that big and that felt that good around a track. The ES, and RX drive like pigs, but are very nicely appointed. All in all I had a good time and came away more convinced that Lexus has their stuff together, it's just stuff that I mostly wouldn't want. The LS on the other hand, well if I was in the market for that kind of car I would seriously consider it before I wouldn't buy it or the S class and wait for the redesign Audi A8. [what can I say, I'm drunk on the kool aid  ] Kudos to Lexus for putting on a very classy event. |
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Replying to: hpowders (Oct 28, 2006 4:26 pm) In the Edmunds comparo no, it didnt. But then Edmunds ranked the GS430 in first place and gave the M45 Sport last place for being too sporty in their sport sedan comparison, so what do they know? It was kind of funny reading the backpedaling in the opening lines of their GS AWD review to try and explain how the GS could possibly be so good and yet so bad at the same time. That AWD comparison also saw the RL receive first place over the A6 and M35x, so clearly Edmunds ability to judge the mid-lux category is questionable at best. C&D also really likes the RL for some reason. I don't get it, there's absolutely nothing about that car I like, and the vast majority of LPS shoppers seem to agree with me. What other comparisons has the GS AWD been in?
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Replying to: dhamilton (Oct 28, 2006 6:32 pm) I agree with you about the BMW 7. I would never get one and would pass on driving it if they have it at my Taste event. The LS is what it is. More luxury than sport and probably always will be. I pretty much know already that it is the GS350 that will most impress me since I liked the GS300 quite a bit. Thanks for the comprehensive feedback! |
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Sorry HP, I wasn't even thinking about the footwell. I'm about 5'10" and I think I've seen you list yourself at 6'1" or so. It didn't seem confining to me. Now the GS, yeah that's a much smaller car on the inside than it looks on the outside.
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Replying to: dhamilton (Oct 28, 2006 6:32 pm) It is unfortunate that the IS350 is not would it could've\should've been. The IS300 had razor sharp steering and a very good chassis that just needed some tweaking to solve the problem of it getting unsettled during at the limit manuvering. Unfortunately it was styled for teenagers (by a teenager, actually) and had a very anemic and very old powerplant. In the process of redesigning it for adults, they solved the power issue but forgot to keep all of the things that worked. |
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Replying to: dhamilton (Oct 28, 2006 7:31 pm) |
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Replying to: lexusguy (Oct 28, 2006 7:12 pm) 
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Earlier in the year, Toyota's Vice-President of NA Trucks said this was a move to instill no doubt that this engine will bring down even the mighty 5.7L HEMI. Ironically, they have the same displacement. But Dodge has something up there sleeve with the 6.1L 420hp HEMI that is going into the '07 Rams as top dog. Pretty much went without sayin' that the 6.1 will be in the Ram soon enough. I, personally, would wait for the Next Ram to do so. I would expect less HP, 'round 400, but more torque! Regarding the IS, the old interior was a bad joke, except for the pop-up NAV, which was worth buying just for the effect. The old chassis was quite good, and Lexus seems more than happy to throw out the baby with the bathwater, since the baby had a lotta funk!  When I drive the IS350 tomorrow I expect a fast car, with strong brakes, with something very wrong with the steering, but high handling limits, if feeling somewhat disconnected. I think a drive in the 7 is mandatory, just so I can gauge the LS handling vs. the Top Gun. Is the LS well behind the 7, and slightly behind the S? I doubt the design parameters were for German level handling. But the Touring Pkg, maybe?  We'll see if the self-parking works. I'm sure they have a test area for this feature, no? The IS seems made for bragging rights, not alley fights. It is beautiful, and super fast. But it flies in the face of Tag's Lexus vs. BMW argument. I doubt I will find a BMW alternative tomorrow. It's agenda may be more style than personality. If nothing else, Lexus has proven that they can make bold, stylish cars. And they already were close to unstoppable. Maybe a driver's car will come next generation?  DrFill
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Replying to: drfill (Oct 28, 2006 9:02 pm) The IS seems made for bragging rights, not alley fights. It is beautiful, and super fast. But it flies in the face of Tag's Lexus vs. BMW argument. I doubt I will find a BMW alternative tomorrow. It's agenda may be more style than personality. Between you and dhamilton's post, the IS is sounding a bit lukewarm. Here's what dhamilton posted about the IS: ...the realization hit me that this car is a hilarious joke as a sports sedan IMO. The steering is beyond words artificial, and the chassis under steers like Dick Cheaney has accidental shootings on hunting excursions. I won't waste any more words on this joke of a car. Can it be that bad? I can't wait for your feedback on the IS, Doc, just to see how different your opinion might be than dhamilton's opinion is. It might illuminate how different reviewers can write such different reviews on the exact same car . . . or . . . maybe you will agree with dhamilton! I want to know the outcome on this one. TagMan |
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