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Sedans High End Luxury Cars
24700 messages, Last post on Dec 01, 2009 at 12:24 PM
You are in the Sedans Forum. Your Hosts are pat & karens
Let's try to define this forum as being limited to luxury performance vehicles where the mainstream version in a typical configuration has an MSRP of at least $60k.
A luxury vehicle with a base price of $59k qualifies because it would typically be bought with some additional equipment, bringing the MSRP over $60k.
Vehicles like the E, 5, A6, M, or GS, even if available in certain versions over $60k, don't qualify because they are cars from companies that have higher end cars in their lineups.
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Replying to: tagman (Oct 27, 2006 8:45 pm) |
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Replying to: dhamilton (Oct 27, 2006 8:01 pm) It will be interesting to compare the Camry, Avalon, ES and LS designs for similarities and...uh... similarities. Hope the Toyotas aren't a mile away from the Lexus exhibit, but I guess that's what cameras are for. Looking forward to sitting in the MB E-Class for the first time. Hope they have a BLUETEC, although I'm sure it would feel the same as sitting in the regular E.
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Replying to: hpowders (Oct 28, 2006 5:45 am) The bluetec definitely isn't the fun one of the bunch, despite its enormous torque. The car sits higher and has smaller tires than the E350 sport for less rolling resistance. |
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Replying to: blkhemi (Oct 28, 2006 5:20 am) Certainly that's one way to go, but I've got to differ with you on this one. I'll predict a mid-engine position . . . similar to the Cayman. It's just a natural, IMO. The 911 may have to drop its rear jump seats for the sake of better pure performance. Of course it will be necessary to distinguish and distance itself from the Cayman. To accomplish that, I imagine that the future 911's HP will be significantly more than the Cayman would ever even hope to get, and that the styling will be a new major leap for a Porsche 911, and of course, well above the Cayman, inside and out. Dropping the rear jump seats makes further sense to me, because the Panamera would then be the ticket for rear passengers. It's surprising that there has not been more info leaked out about this. I would expect very serious HP and slalom capabilities with a new potentially mid-engined 911. Of course, you could be right and they go front-engine, but somehow I see the first true mid-engined 911 in my crystal ball, and at this point I'll take a big risk and go on record early here with my prediction. ETA? Maybe model year 2009 or 2010. TagMan
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Replying to: tagman (Oct 28, 2006 12:04 pm) I think you're probably right. Porsche is supposed to compete with other front engined GTs like the 599GTB and DB9 with the Panamera based 928, which will have a front engine. The 911 is supposed to be the pure sports car, so it makes sense for it to have the engine in the middle. |
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Replying to: tagman (Oct 28, 2006 12:04 pm) This way, they still can achieve the Boxster's and Cayman's perfect 50/50 WD. True, you will have to give up the rear seat, but if that's biggest penalty, then the "penalty in-law box" has to go. The 911 owners I know say that the occassional grocery bag is the only thing it sees anyway. And to boot, the car will in effect gain the other cars phenomenal combined 20+ cu.ft of combined space. Tag, I figure we won't see a new 911 until about '10 or '11, as that's the average life span, altho the previous Boxster survived from '97 to '04, clearly a milestone in it's class, but it can do that because that car is second to none in it's class. |
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Replying to: syswei (Oct 24, 2006 5:34 am) I would like to have gone again but registration is full and I threw out my badge. Did you go early? My time was at 12:30 but these times did not seem strictly adhered to. I think they were just trying to balance the attendance.
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Replying to: lexusguy (Oct 24, 2006 6:13 am) I just dont get it, the 450h makes no sense. . Hmm, three question marks. Have I short circuited the logic of Spock?  Notice I said I would CONSIDER buying it but need to test it further. The shortcomings have been well noted for some time now. This doesn’t lessen my intrigue with the technology and my short test drive fanned the flames of this intrigue. I haven’t driven the GS 350 and yes, I would like to. BTW, Automobile mag says the GS 450h is capable of a 4.6 0-60. Mistake? Probably. It felt fast but not that fast.
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I guess this “marque” discussion is interesting especially from the perspective of language usage. Allow me to weigh in. If you consider the etymology, that is the origins of the word, I think “brand” is the purest meaning, as opposed “make” or “manner in which it is constructed.” In my opinion Mercedes is a marque, less so the models such as the E-class and S-class. Each one of their models is heavily branded as a Mercedes and often referred to as a Mercedes in general. The model does not rise above the brand, they are subsumed within the brand. I would not refer to models such as the E-class, S-class, 5-series, A8, LS etc. as marques in the purest sense of the word. There are however instances where I would refer to models as marques. Take the Corvette which I think qualifies as a marque. It does rise above the Chevrolet brand and you would rarely if ever refer to it as a Chevrolet. To illustrate this further, imagine giving a valet your ticket and he asks what kind of car you have. You would NEVER tell him Chevy if you are driving a Corvette, it just doesn’t make sense. Conversely, if you had an E500 you would probably identify it first as a Mercedes without even mentioning the model number. Other models I would qualify as marques are perhaps Maybach, Avanti, Skyline, maybe even Mustang. Outside the automotive world I would say Coke and Pepsi are marques as well as Macintosh computers, but not the Acoustimass sound system because Bose is the marque. Surely there are many other examples but these just came to the top of my head. Perhaps my assessment is not entirely accurate but that’s my take. Now, having said this, I agree with Lexusguy (and I think Merc) that the cars listed in the masthead of this thread are of distinct genre and deserve to be compared in a group as are Luxury Performance Sedans and Entry Level Luxury Performance Sedans. However, if this is to be strictly the case, this thread should have been named High End Luxury Sedans, not “Marques.” Anyway, I think “Marques” as opposed to "Sedans" is a worthy topic and this place has succeeded in attracting us car yentas. As such I am glad to see that the rules have been “relaxed” somewhat around here. There was a time when we were required to stick with the models in the masthead. I always believed the cars within the marque should be considered as they apply to the high-end brand and I had argued this in the past only to have been sent to the Gulag Archipelago. Needless to say, the Berlin wall has crumbled in this thread and for this I am unquestionably happy thanks to the catharsis of Pat and Kirstie our recovering despots. (Oh for heaven’s sake I’m just kidding.)
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Replying to: designman (Oct 28, 2006 1:33 pm) TagMan |
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