Edmunds.com | Inside Line | Auto Observer Your Account | Help | Directory
You are here:
![[F]](http://a332.g.akamai.net/f/332/936/12h/www.edmunds.com/media/townhall/webxicons/site.gif){kind=small}
Forums
Sedans High End Luxury Cars
24700 messages, Last post on Dec 01, 2009 at 12:24 PM
You are in the Sedans Forum. Your Hosts are pat & karens
Let's try to define this forum as being limited to luxury performance vehicles where the mainstream version in a typical configuration has an MSRP of at least $60k.
A luxury vehicle with a base price of $59k qualifies because it would typically be bought with some additional equipment, bringing the MSRP over $60k.
Vehicles like the E, 5, A6, M, or GS, even if available in certain versions over $60k, don't qualify because they are cars from companies that have higher end cars in their lineups.
|
Yes Tag the CLS is a fancy, very fancy E-Class right down to the lugnuts. Such a stunning job they did in converting it huh? The interior uses the same hardpoints as the E, but the materials and trim are different. The big ole plank of wood really sets it off. The small MB SUV will be the GLK, not the MLK. MLK couldn't be used for obvious reasons. Lexusguy, you continue to impress despite your handle...lol! The Mercedes lineup for all of those who are bewildered by the sheer number of models and their meanings, stay with me here: C = To the best of my knowledge stands for compact, "Kompakt". E = This used to mean the German word for fuel-injection (Einspritzung) when it was used in everything from 560SEL to 300CE, but now it mean "E-Class" which from what I've seen on dedicated MB boards means "Excutive". S = Special or Super, continued debate on this elsewhere. Derived from "Sonderklasse" which means super in German or something like that. CLK = Coupe, Light, Short. CL = Coupe, Light. SL = Sport, Light. SLR = Sport, Light, Racing. (my favorite) G = Geländewagen. CLS = Coupe, Light, Sport maybe? I have no idea. SLK = Sport, Light, Short. GLK = Geländewagen, Light, Short. GL = Geländewagen, Light. The ML and R I don't have a clue as to what they mean. M could stand for multi-purpose something. The R was originally the "Grand Sport Tourer", but they didn't call it the GST-Class so who knows. Knowing Mercedes though it means something. Obviously the word "light" (Leicht) as in being lightweight doesn't accurately describe any modern day Benz! Neither does short really except for maybe the SLK. Prior to the 1994 model year Mercedes used to put the letter before the number, that number being the engine size. The 560SEL which meant a 5.6L Super/Special, Fuel-injected, Long. The 300E for example meant 3L, Fuel-Injected. Then you had models like the 300TD which mean meant 3L, Touring (i.e. wagon), Diesel. 300CE meant 3L, Coupe, Fuel-Injected. Then you had 190E, which wasn't the engine size or anything, but still Fuel-Injected. Makes sense doesn't it? Anyway, the greatest MB sedan of this era was the "500E" IMO. M
|
|
|
Replying to: lexusguy (Oct 25, 2006 8:58 pm) What category would you put the Q in? I think it is close to the Jag in perception. I saw a new Q in a parking lot the other day and I have to say that it looked great to me. The fit and finish was excellent. I will admit that I know nothing about the driving dynamics, etc. |
|
|
|
|
Replying to: lexusguy (Oct 25, 2006 9:43 pm) ES competes with Buick? only in the minds of some ES detractors. Even Buick only claims their sedan compete against Toyota's. Getting AWD will give ES a major differentiator from Camry, and position the model more inline with Audi A6. Sure, its mission is not to compete agaisnt BMW (that's the department of GS and CLS), but having AWD is a major credibility point on paper now that RWD and AWD are in fashion. Audi did not even bring the FWD base A6 to the US until recently, despite the A6 platform is basicly a FWD platform just like that of the ES.
|
|
|
|
|
Replying to: lexusguy (Oct 25, 2006 9:46 pm) 
|
|
|
|
|
Replying to: merc1 (Oct 25, 2006 10:41 pm) E class was derived from the old 300 series, and you are certainly correct about where the letter E came from. MB used to be engine-centric, building cars around engines. It may not have been unique in that regard, just witness all the car companies with "motor" in their names. 1600, 2000/2002, 200, 240, 300 were all popular names for cars. BMW was the first one to systematicly classify cars according to body size instead of engines, and achieved great success doing it, in the 80's. By that time, electronic fuel injection had popularized to such a degree that, the coach building part had become a more expensive part of carmaking than engine manufacturing. C stands for "cheap" or "commonplace," just kidding. It's probably a mistake when MB succeeded 190 series with the "C" designation when the company also use the same letter to stand for much more expensive coupes. R may stand for "recreational" but more importantly, giving it a wheelbase comparable to the S class, MB was intending on taking the top end in a new direction and increase sales aggregate volume at the top end without diluting S class price premium . . . hence the "R," right next to the letter "S" in the alphabeic order. A,B,C were probably chosen for the alphabetic order to indicate their low status compared to the E and S. MB may have abandoned or made an exception to the alphabetic order when they named GL class, trying to capitalize on the Gelandewagon name that was already used in the army vehicle. |
|
|
Replying to: merc1 (Oct 25, 2006 10:41 pm) I've noticed that myself . . . It's worth repeating. TagMan |
|
currently a discussion going on as to whether or not the new MDX cancels out the RL's flagship designation. I've driven it, and it is just that good IMO. So My question is, will Acura ever build a HELM? It's not a question of can they, but will they IMO. I think that they almost have to or go down in history as another Saab type vehicle. Not quite quirky enough, but better reliability, and a more solid product in the mind of consumers.
|
|
|
|
|
Replying to: dhamilton (Oct 26, 2006 7:57 am) Acura will probably succeed putting forth a HELM car in the next generation RL or the one after that, when the V10 becomes available. Developing a HELM car is actually easier than developing a successful mass market car: the R&D cost of the Maybach is only a couple hundred million, compared to 4-8 billion dollars that it takes to develop a platform like Civic nowadays. The tricky part of HELM is finding enough buyers of the car to make the whole project profitable . . . as illustrated vividly by the Phaetom experiment. The car is fine, finding buyers of the brand is the tough part. Acura is not Saab. Honda/Acura has the money and the economy of scale that Saab never had. |
|
|
Replying to: brightness04 (Oct 26, 2006 6:32 am) There's a difference between the A6 and ES though, the A6 has usually only offered Quattro AWD here, where as the ES has always been FWD. There's no stigma about it being FWD, like say the Jaguar X-type. A definite possibility would be an AWD ES450h. They could power the rear wheels using the electric motors, as on the RX400h. |
|
|
Replying to: brightness04 (Oct 26, 2006 6:35 am) I think there's a definitely possibility of the next one being invited to join the HELM club. I don't see any real desire on the board to include the current Q, as it only seems to show up in conversation to be the butt of a joke. I'll admit I don't know much about the XJ's sales numbers in the early '90s, I just remember seeing a lot more of them then than I do now. I also know some XJ owning friends that have since moved on to Mercedes or BMW. I even considered an XJ6 myself, but I went with a LS400 instead. |
|
New? Join Now!
Forum Tools
Search Forums
Browse by Vehicle
2011 Audi A8
2010 BMW 7 Series
2008 Jaguar XJ-Series
2010 Lexus LS 460
2010 Mercedes-Benz S-Class
2006 Volkswagen Phaeton
2009 Maserati Quattroporte
2010 Mercedes-Benz CL-Class
Browse by Board
Browse by Topic
Today's Chats
