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High End Luxury Cars

24723 messages,  Last post on Jan 28, 2013 at 6:55 PM

You are in the Sedans Forum.

What is this discussion about? Audi A8, BMW 7 Series, Jaguar XJ-Series, Lexus LS 460, Mercedes-Benz S-Class, Volkswagen Phaeton, Maserati Quattroporte, Mercedes-Benz CL-Class, Sedan



Let's try to define this forum as being limited to luxury performance vehicles where the mainstream version in a typical configuration has an MSRP of at least $60k.

A luxury vehicle with a base price of $59k qualifies because it would typically be bought with some additional equipment, bringing the MSRP over $60k.

Vehicles like the E, 5, A6, M, or GS, even if available in certain versions over $60k, don't qualify because they are cars from companies that have higher end cars in their lineups.

Messages Page 2048 of 2474

#20462 of 24723 Re: MB marketting quirks [brightness04] by lexusguy

Oct 25, 2006 (9:58 pm)

Replying to: brightness04 (Oct 25, 2006 9:37 pm)
BTW, I agree with adding Q45 if it is not already in the HELM. It qualifies in every which way, seeing that it's lower brother, the M35/45, is a legit competitor to 5, E and GS. The 340hp V8 and 200" body certainly count; they have been available since 2002.
 
Actually, I think I agree with drfill on this one. The Q is sort of the opposite situation as the E class. Mercedes is without question a HELM, but the E is in the wrong segment for this board. The Q is in the full-lux segment yes, but is Infiniti a HELM? Not really.

#20463 of 24723 Re: E class [mariner7] by brightness04

Oct 25, 2006 (10:10 pm)

Replying to: mariner7 (Oct 25, 2006 6:16 pm)
K stands for Kuntz, i.e. "short" in reference to wheelbase or body length.
 
Japanese already have a CLS competitor. It's called the GS . . . the swoopier and less mainstream mid-size offering. Unlike the CL above and the CLK below, both of which are sedan-derived coupes, the CLS is a sedan not a coupe. MB is seeing the wisdom in further differentiating the midsize range, into the sporty variety vs. the luxury variety . . . both being sedans. IMHO, it won't be long before we see E280 and perhaps even E220 diesel here in the US, to do battle with ES in a more direct fashion. ES on the other hand may take a page from Acura playbook and get AWD, assuming it does not get renamed to something else.

#20464 of 24723 Re: MB marketting quirks [lexusguy] by brightness04

Oct 25, 2006 (10:16 pm)

Replying to: lexusguy (Oct 25, 2006 9:58 pm)
It's sort of like the failed VW entry or the not so successful either Ford-Jaguar XJ. At least Infiniti is still selling it, in however miniscule amount.

#20465 of 24723 Re: E class [brightness04] by lexusguy

Oct 25, 2006 (10:43 pm)

Replying to: brightness04 (Oct 25, 2006 10:10 pm)
Japanese already have a CLS competitor. It's called the GS . . . the swoopier and less mainstream mid-size offering.
 
Not quite. The '98 GS also had that tiny rear deck, it takes a bit more than that to be a "4-door coupe".
 
ES on the other hand may take a page from Acura playbook and get AWD, assuming it does not get renamed to something else.
 
That seems very unlikely. The TL desperately needs AWD so that it can eliminate the torque steer issues with the 6-speed TL-S, and compete on a more level playing field with the G35 and 3 series. The ES competes with Buicks, not BMWs. I dont see any reason why AWD would be necessary.

#20466 of 24723 Re: MB marketting quirks [brightness04] by lexusguy

Oct 25, 2006 (10:46 pm)

Replying to: brightness04 (Oct 25, 2006 10:16 pm)
It's sort of like the failed VW entry or the not so successful either Ford-Jaguar XJ. At least Infiniti is still selling it, in however miniscule amount.
 
Not exactly. VW is a mass market auto company, Infiniti is not. Unlike the Q, the XJ has in the past been a successful and definitely HELM class luxury sedan, its just in a slump right now. The XJ12 was a very high end car and a serious competitor to BMW and Mercedes V12 7 and S cars.

#20467 of 24723 Re: opinion [anthonyp] by merc1

Oct 25, 2006 (11:15 pm)

Replying to: anthonyp (Oct 25, 2006 1:51 pm)
....It`s nice to occasionally read the `old` Merc vs the newer Merc....I hope you are enjoying the car? Anything to report?
 
I see. Nothing really to report just enjoying the car. These summer tires hate cold temps though, so some winter tires are next.
 
M

#20468 of 24723 Mercedes-Benz - A short lesson... by merc1

Oct 25, 2006 (11:41 pm)

Yes Tag the CLS is a fancy, very fancy E-Class right down to the lugnuts. Such a stunning job they did in converting it huh? The interior uses the same hardpoints as the E, but the materials and trim are different. The big ole plank of wood really sets it off.
 
The small MB SUV will be the GLK, not the MLK. MLK couldn't be used for obvious reasons.
 
Lexusguy, you continue to impress despite your handle...lol!
 
The Mercedes lineup for all of those who are bewildered by the sheer number of models and their meanings, stay with me here:
 
C = To the best of my knowledge stands for compact, "Kompakt".
 
E = This used to mean the German word for fuel-injection (Einspritzung) when it was used in everything from 560SEL to 300CE, but now it mean "E-Class" which from what I've seen on dedicated MB boards means "Excutive".
 
S = Special or Super, continued debate on this elsewhere. Derived from "Sonderklasse" which means super in German or something like that.
 
CLK = Coupe, Light, Short.
 
CL = Coupe, Light.
 
SL = Sport, Light.
 
SLR = Sport, Light, Racing. (my favorite)
 
G = Geländewagen.
 
CLS = Coupe, Light, Sport maybe? I have no idea.
 
SLK = Sport, Light, Short.
 
GLK = Geländewagen, Light, Short.
 
GL = Geländewagen, Light.
 
The ML and R I don't have a clue as to what they mean. M could stand for multi-purpose something. The R was originally the "Grand Sport Tourer", but they didn't call it the GST-Class so who knows. Knowing Mercedes though it means something.
 
Obviously the word "light" (Leicht) as in being lightweight doesn't accurately describe any modern day Benz! Neither does short really except for maybe the SLK.
 
Prior to the 1994 model year Mercedes used to put the letter before the number, that number being the engine size. The 560SEL which meant a 5.6L Super/Special, Fuel-injected, Long. The 300E for example meant 3L, Fuel-Injected. Then you had models like the 300TD which mean meant 3L, Touring (i.e. wagon), Diesel. 300CE meant 3L, Coupe, Fuel-Injected. Then you had 190E, which wasn't the engine size or anything, but still Fuel-Injected. Makes sense doesn't it?
 
Anyway, the greatest MB sedan of this era was the "500E" IMO.
 
M

#20469 of 24723 Re: MB marketting quirks [lexusguy] by houdini1

Oct 26, 2006 (6:17 am)

Replying to: lexusguy (Oct 25, 2006 9:58 pm)
but is Infiniti a HELM? Not really.
 
What category would you put the Q in? I think it is close to the Jag in perception.
 
I saw a new Q in a parking lot the other day and I have to say that it looked great to me. The fit and finish was excellent. I will admit that I know nothing about the driving dynamics, etc.

#20470 of 24723 Re: E class [lexusguy] by brightness04

Oct 26, 2006 (7:32 am)

Replying to: lexusguy (Oct 25, 2006 10:43 pm)
"4-door coupe" is just a self-contradictory term invented to say "we are new, we aredifferent" Overtime, IMHO, that styling difference will give way to the practicality of normally proportioned sedans. The difference between CLS and regular E will be in the performance department.
 
ES competes with Buick? only in the minds of some ES detractors. Even Buick only claims their sedan compete against Toyota's. Getting AWD will give ES a major differentiator from Camry, and position the model more inline with Audi A6. Sure, its mission is not to compete agaisnt BMW (that's the department of GS and CLS), but having AWD is a major credibility point on paper now that RWD and AWD are in fashion. Audi did not even bring the FWD base A6 to the US until recently, despite the A6 platform is basicly a FWD platform just like that of the ES.

#20471 of 24723 Re: MB marketting quirks [lexusguy] by brightness04

Oct 26, 2006 (7:35 am)

Replying to: lexusguy (Oct 25, 2006 10:46 pm)
So, in other words, since Infiniti is a luxury brand, you are inclined to include the Q as HELM? XJ's "success" has to be taken in context . . . its sales volume was not much higher than that of the Q even in its heydays. Speaking of glorious past, Buick actually had a history of building extremely high end luxury sedans/saloons, decades ago

Messages Page 2048 of 2474

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