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Sedans High End Luxury Cars
24700 messages, Last post on Dec 01, 2009 at 12:24 PM
You are in the Sedans Forum. Your Hosts are pat & karens
Let's try to define this forum as being limited to luxury performance vehicles where the mainstream version in a typical configuration has an MSRP of at least $60k.
A luxury vehicle with a base price of $59k qualifies because it would typically be bought with some additional equipment, bringing the MSRP over $60k.
Vehicles like the E, 5, A6, M, or GS, even if available in certain versions over $60k, don't qualify because they are cars from companies that have higher end cars in their lineups.
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BMW's are always given the CR coveted red circle for depreciation, meaning "excellent." Every single BMW rated in the April 2006 CR was given the red circle except for new models which weren't rated. Very few cars hold their value as well as BMW's and this has been true all the way back to the lamented Bavaria and 2002 models of the 1970's. Admittedly, the residuals are a little inflated on the BMWFS leases, but not by much!
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Replying to: brightness04 (Oct 19, 2006 7:26 am) The data you point out from Edmunds is valid for the number of cars involved . The sampled examples in Edmunds is substantially smaller than the samples used by the two biggest organizations that are in the business of future resale values/retained values and CR itself. In otherwords Edmunds datais more prone to sampling errors. If I am going to rely on stats I am going to rely on the ones with a bigger samples. And which brings me back to my original point: Your view that BMW/MB values are selling at dirt low prices at auctions is bunk. You yourself cant prove it. Can you?. Your view that MB/BMW subsidized lease averages and manipulation and blah blah blah is bunk. And now excuse me I am going to have some serious steak Tartar with raw egg yolk( raw fish is far too over-rated in my opionion)
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Replying to: hpowders (Oct 19, 2006 7:34 am) 2. CR also gives red circle to Lexus. In a sea of domestics, both brands are fine, especially if BMW numbers are dominated by pre-E90 3 series. I'd call 60% residual vs. 50% actual auction pretty big discrepancy. The monthly payment would have been nearly a 33% higher if the true 50% residual were used (assuming 10% reduction in nominal sale price from MSRP). On cars like E46 convertibles right now, with nearly 20% off MSRP negotiated capitalization cost possible, a 10% MSRP decrease in residual (from 60% to 50%) would increase payment by 50%. I'd say, that's a huge difference.
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Replying to: tagman (Oct 19, 2006 7:14 am) Baloney. Meat? There you go again. 
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Replying to: dewey (Oct 19, 2006 7:43 am) I have been to auctions, so I know what it's like first-hand. For obvious industry profit reasons, those numbers are not widely published. If you think your own preconceived notions are more valid than Edmunds' numbers, that's your problem. It's rather hard to believe that they would consistently get it wrong on all main line MB and BMW models. The reality is that, from what I have seen, they are rather generous in their numbers. Your view that MB/BMW subsidized lease averages and manipulation and blah blah blah is bunk. You can stuff your fingers in your ear and say blah blah all you want. The reality is that the market place is well aware this phenomenom, and explains why most of your fellow Europhiles are leasing nowadays.
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Replying to: dewey (Oct 19, 2006 7:52 am) |
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Replying to: brightness04 (Oct 19, 2006 7:56 am) Huh huh so now you know the inside story on what numbers are published and what numbers are not published in the industry. Wow! Dont worry Brightness I am not going to ask you how you know that? You are not under prosecution at least not here in these forums. But I would just love to be the prosecutor in this one single case of yours  You can stuff your fingers in your ear and say blah blah all you want. The reality is that the market place is well aware this phenomenom And ofcourse you yourself know that phenemona which is unpublished
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Replying to: dewey (Oct 19, 2006 8:04 am) All the personal attacks really do not add to your argument. If your argument is that Edmunds numbers are way off base, the onus is on you to prove it. I just used their numbers in here for the sake of simplicity, and they are close enough, from what I have seen. BTW, how did I get access to dealer auctions? I had a roommate when I was out of college and relatively poor, and her boyfriend runs a used car lot and a mechanics shop. They eventually moved in together and got married, but he still takes care of my out-of-warranty repairs and wear items like brakes etc.. Much of his profit is from buying and selling lease returns. He brought me and some of my family relatives to those auctions when we wanted cars.
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Replying to: brightness04 (Oct 19, 2006 7:48 am) Not entirely true: If you look at CR April 2006, you will find a perfect 4 out of 4 BMW vehicles rated excellent for depreciation. Three weren't rated because they were either new models or not enough data were collected. For Lexus vehicles, 4 vehicles were rated excellent, 3 were rated very good (includes the LS) and one wasn't rated because it was a new model (IS).
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Replying to: brightness04 (Oct 19, 2006 7:26 am) That's good. We're closing the gap here. And the difference between that larger-than-expected fully-equipped LS460L price and an S-Class is the point here. You were saying that the S-Class price is inflated. I'll close the gap a bit with you myself by saying that I think Mercedes could benefit by lowering the price slightly, because I have posted that opinion in the past. But, for the most part, I believe that the S-Class delivers more than enough of a return for its price. TagMan
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