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Sedans High End Luxury Cars
24700 messages, Last post on Dec 01, 2009 at 12:24 PM
You are in the Sedans Forum. Your Hosts are pat & karens
Let's try to define this forum as being limited to luxury performance vehicles where the mainstream version in a typical configuration has an MSRP of at least $60k.
A luxury vehicle with a base price of $59k qualifies because it would typically be bought with some additional equipment, bringing the MSRP over $60k.
Vehicles like the E, 5, A6, M, or GS, even if available in certain versions over $60k, don't qualify because they are cars from companies that have higher end cars in their lineups.
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Replying to: tagman (Oct 18, 2006 4:30 pm)
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Replying to: tagman (Oct 18, 2006 5:19 pm) |
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I know how much Lexus hybrid efforts have been ridiculed in this forum especially in the form of the GS450H but believe it or not a dedicated Mercedes man who happens to be the head of research at DaimlerChryselr is completely impressed and overwhelmed by the Lexus GS450H. STUTTGART Every couple of months, Thomas Weber, head of research for DaimlerChrysler, gets behind the wheel of one of his own cars, or that of one of his competitors, and drives through the mountainous terrain of Europe or on long stretches in the United States. While taking a spin this year, the lifelong Mercedes man found himself impressed with a novelty on the European market: Toyota Motor's new Lexus GS 450H, the world's first luxury car that incorporates an electric hybrid motor but still performs for a demanding driver like Weber. Based on the Herald Tribune article I linked below it certainly does seem that Mercedes, Audi and BMW are very serious about hybrids. Diesels are not going to be their sole pursuit in terms of fuel efficiency. So I guess we are going to see a lot of future drivetrain experimentation for the three German marques. There will likely be many models offering both diesel and hybrid drivetrains simultaneously. A Audi Q7 diesel sold simultaneously with a Q7 hybrid, a diesel MB S sold side by side with a hybrid MB S or hybrid diesel MB S and so on and so on..... SOURCE: HERALD TRIBUNE |
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Well, Mercedes have never been comparison winners, save for the SL. I don't think Mercedes cares a great deal. The same is probably true for Lexus. You don't want to be a bottom-feeder, in either case. But what would you rather be good at? I'm sure they don't build cars to please journalists. The M35/45 has put a nice string together, and can't outsell the beleaugered GS! This previous post of mine seems to have you chaffed, still. I apologized for not including GL and AMG vehicles. All comparisons count, but I due place more credit on beating 6-7 cars in a comparison than 1 or 2 cars. Apparently you didn't get my point, which was that winning a comparison and being #1 in sales have different values to different people. The M has won at least two major comparisons, and it has it's work cut out keeping up with such unpopular cars (around here) as the Lexus GS. Lexus has stated they want to sell 30k GS a year. As far as I can tell, every month they are getting 2500 a month out of it, so even if it isn't King of The Mountain, it is successful to it's maker, and to 30k buyers. No one "copped out". Just stating the facts. I was the first one to say I envisioned a design more in the 5-series idiom, than what we received. The SC doesn't have to win comparisons to be a success. Neither does the C-Class. Or the Lexus ES. I remember when the 1996 Isuzu Trooper won an 8-truck SUV comparison in C&D. Would you call the Trooper a success? No. Why? Because no one bought one. If the boring LS can, consistently, win comparisons with other sexier, sportier, more powerful rides, it says something about Lexus and their ability to execute. Usually when something is labeled "critically-acclaimed", that means nobody is buying/watching it.  DrFill |
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Replying to: brightness04 (Oct 18, 2006 6:32 pm) But any auto maker that uses your inflated residual argument will end up perishing due to losses or at least suffering the slow and gradual death that is afflicting the Big 3. BMW and Audi profits are healthy and growing while MB profits are going through a healthy recovery(apparently the same cannot be said about Chrysler). Fortunately such economics as you are describing above is not applicable to the three German luxury marques.
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Replying to: blkhemi (Oct 18, 2006 2:53 pm) The 2006 G35 is also a lame duck. G35 sales should get a nice boost next year. |
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Replying to: dewey (Oct 18, 2006 7:17 pm) There are however three consequences of this game: (1) a higher sales revenue is booked at inception of the lease, to be followed by a $20k write-down disgorgement three years later. So long as the sales volume is expanding, the front-ending of the book (ie. more new cooked up sales than lease return coming back to roost) looks good for the current quarter. The day the sales volume drops (i.e. not enough new cooked up sales to offset write-downs from previous fake sales), the company is in trouble. That's how the domestics ran into trouble a decade ago: they had to increase volume at all cost. In other words, this particular marketting method can be either a profit booster or loss booster . . . it's a leveraged play on sales growth. (2) It allows the leasers to brag about having a car with higher MSRP: $100k vs. $80k, even if the real worth of the car (ie. the life time revenue of the car for the manufacturer) is the same $80k. (3) In states that collect excise tax based on MSRP, it results in a higer tax bill.
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Replying to: brightness04 (Oct 18, 2006 6:32 pm) Even MORE . . . $70  (I get your point, though) TagMan
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Replying to: tagman (Oct 18, 2006 7:58 pm) edit: See your edit. Thanks for the witty reparte 
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Replying to: brightness04 (Oct 18, 2006 8:03 pm) You're welcome.  Ever since I said that the "LS is all sizzle and no steak, and the S-Class is all steak and no sizzle" . . . all we're talking about any more is freakin' steaks, steakhouses, chunks of meat, taxes, tips, and gift certificates! What the heck's going on here? Are we opening up a darned restaurant or something? Heck, you want it medium-rare or well-done? To the point . . . I have yet to see your real numbers showing a loaded LS460L compared to an S-Class. You guys were trying to make it sound as though the prices were miles apart. And I just don't think they are. That's what this is really about. TagMan
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