High End Luxury Cars

24697 messages, Last post on Nov 28, 2009 at 3:09 PM

You are in the Sedans Forum. Your Hosts are pat & karens

What is this discussion about? Audi A8, BMW 7 Series, Jaguar XJ-Series, Lexus LS 460, Mercedes-Benz S-Class, Volkswagen Phaeton, Maserati Quattroporte, Mercedes-Benz CL-Class, Sedan

Let's try to define this forum as being limited to luxury performance vehicles where the mainstream version in a typical configuration has an MSRP of at least $60k.

A luxury vehicle with a base price of $59k qualifies because it would typically be bought with some additional equipment, bringing the MSRP over $60k.

Vehicles like the E, 5, A6, M, or GS, even if available in certain versions over $60k, don't qualify because they are cars from companies that have higher end cars in their lineups.

Outline

Messages Page 2005 of 2471: 1; ...; 2002; 2003; 2004; 2005; 2006; 2007; 2008; ...; 2471; Prev; Next; Last

#20033 of 24697 Merc by drfill Oct 18, 2006 (4:40 am)
You're falling on your own sword here Doc. Not really. The GL is excellent! I forgot about that one, but I wasn't counting AMG cars, as that's a very small class to beat for comparison. What are they, in a class of two? The 3.5 in the GS will boost sales enough to stay ahead of the M, even though it's dynamics are more pleasant than fierce. Not sure where I "copped out", but you seem to have made my point for me. The LS430 is the most unlikely of enthusiast's magazine champions, but it's inherent excellence wins out in the end. You seem to be under the impression that I said somewhere that every Lexus is better than every Mercedes, which is an error on your part. Unless you have evidence to the contrary? DrFill Replies to this message: merc1 (Oct 18, 2006 4:48 am)
#20034 of 24697 Re: Merc [drfill] by merc1 Oct 18, 2006 (4:48 am)
Replying to: drfill (Oct 18, 2006 4:40 am) I forgot about that one, but I wasn't counting AMG cars, as that's a very small class to beat for comparison. What are they, in a class of two? Nope, there are Maseratis, Aston-Martins, Motorsport BMWs, S/RS Audis and R Jaguars to contend with. Now if you're going to say that some comparos count and others don't then.... AMGs are Mercedes too. Not sure where I "copped out", but you seem to have made my point for me. The LS430 is the most unlikely of enthusiast's magazine champions, but it's inherent excellence wins out in the end. No your point hasn't been made, nor did you really have one. You gave an excuse about certain Lexuses not being made for journalists or enthusiast and that being why certain Lexus models never win comparos, like the SC430. I said that this notion is disproven a thousand times over if Lexus' dullest, most boring car (the LS430) can win comparos in the eyes of these very same journalist. The fact that Lexus' dullest car wins while their more exciting ones don't shoots down any point you could have even tried to make about comparos. Like I said before you go back and forth from comparos to sales to make a point, one minute comparos are the most important thing and the next they aren't. Reverting back to how good the car is a change of argument mid-stream doc. M
#20035 of 24697 Vehicle Sales by suvguy2005 Oct 18, 2006 (6:11 am)
Replying to: drfill (Oct 18, 2006 4:10 am) "So the IS sedan not only outsells the cheaper A4, easily, it also outsells vaunted G35 sedan!" A quote from the Edmunds review of the 2007 G35. "Last year, Infiniti sold 121,000 vehicles, 55,000 of which wore the G35 badge." Automotive News used to allow non subscribers to view the sales charts but no longer does so I can't check it. Before they cut off access I looked it up and the G35 was second in sales only to the BMW 3-series. California makes up about half of BMW's sales. The G35 out sells the BMW in the rest of the country. Replies to this message: dewey (Oct 18, 2006 8:31 am)
#20036 of 24697 Re: I'm Hoping... [merc1] by hpowders Oct 18, 2006 (7:16 am)
Replying to: merc1 (Oct 17, 2006 10:32 pm) Good to hear. My back will appreciate it.
#20037 of 24697 Re: Lexus Quality Slipping [brightness04] by dewey Oct 18, 2006 (8:25 am)
Replying to: brightness04 (Oct 17, 2006 5:41 pm) see. Then your earlier statement of "owning for 13 years" without any problem was just wee bit misleading I've owned a single BMW323i for 8 years. A great car that had spared me a lot of heartbreak in terms of its low maintenance costs after warranty. Am I the single happy long-term BMW owner in this universe? Nope! I know other BMW owners personally and my experience is confirmed by various reliability surveys. Overall BMWs reliability is not stellar but they are certainly not below average. BTW, with the heavily subsidized lease deals on BMW's nowadays, BMW or MB does not monopolize the industry for good lease deals or discounts. I can assure you there are plenty of individuals that got great lease/discount deals at various Japanese luxury dealerships. When the new BMW 7 series will be introduced you are going to have a heck of a time in terms of getting a good lease deal. At intro the days that a 7 series will sit at dealers lots will be very low in fact probably lower than what is currently observed with the new 335i: The average 335i spends a mere eight days on a dealer's lot before selling, according to the Power Information Network The only rival model that's anywhere close is the Lexus IS 350, which spends an average of 20 days on the lot before selling. The quote above is from a somewhat positive review of the BMW335i which is linked below: BUSINESSWEEK Replies to this message: brightness04 (Oct 18, 2006 8:41 am) dewey (Oct 18, 2006 8:48 am) hpowders (Oct 18, 2006 10:31 am) and 54 more... dewey (Oct 18, 2006 9:05 am)
#20039 of 24697 Re: Vehicle Sales [suvguy2005] by dewey Oct 18, 2006 (8:31 am)
Replying to: suvguy2005 (Oct 18, 2006 6:11 am) California makes up about half of BMW's sales. The G35 out sells the BMW in the rest of the country. I've never felt so Californian in my whole life. Although that still does not qualify me to vote for or against Schwartzenegger.
#20040 of 24697 Re: Lexus Quality Slipping [hpowders] by brightness04 Oct 18, 2006 (8:31 am)
Replying to: hpowders (Oct 17, 2006 6:19 pm) The warranty is 5yrs or 50k miles . . . that's 3yrs of driving for a lot of people. Warranty only covers parts and labor, not the time wasted or consequences of unexpected service outage. The last part is what makes me balk at purchasing unreliable cars. I don't mind spending some time taking it to the shop at time of my choosing, but sudden service outage is a risk that I can not afford to take. More than half the time when I drive, I'm actually expected at the destination; clients who are paying thousands of dollars for me to be there . . . folks that I can not afford to upset with an unreliable car. BTW, ever had a light bulb outage on those leased BMW? Besides the hassle of small things like the light bulbs, I had a transmission failure and a Motronic computer failure, both leaving me stranded, when I had my BMW's. That was during a phase of my life when my punctuality was not all that important. Replies to this message: dewey (Oct 18, 2006 8:39 am) hpowders (Oct 18, 2006 10:27 am)
#20041 of 24697 Re: Lexus Quality Slipping [brightness04] by dewey Oct 18, 2006 (8:39 am)
Replying to: brightness04 (Oct 18, 2006 8:31 am) My personal experiences contradict your personal experiences with owning BMWs. Statistically surveys do not show BMWs as being below average in terms of reliability. Please refer to Kirstie's recent post. You can alway google and find horror stories about any marque. No marque is perfect in terms of reliability and that is why Lexus is still relentlessly pursuing it.
#20042 of 24697 Re: Lexus Quality Slipping [dewey] by brightness04 Oct 18, 2006 (8:41 am)
Replying to: dewey (Oct 18, 2006 8:25 am) A car model that sells 60k copies a year, even with 59k turning out to be complete lemons, would still have 1k satisfied owners. 1k is much more than "a lot," which is 20 That's the problem with anecdotal positive experience. Bad experience has to be the exception/minority in this day and age for any brand . . . the question is how "exceptional" is it for a particular brand . . . i.e. how many sigma's is the buyer/leaser willing to tolerate. 335i has been on the market for only a few weeks, whereas IS350 has been on the market for a model year. I'm already seeing 328 coupe being offered at very heavily subsidized lease deals. Replies to this message: dewey (Oct 18, 2006 8:48 am) hpowders (Oct 18, 2006 10:31 am) dewey (Oct 18, 2006 11:29 am) and 52 more... dewey (Oct 18, 2006 9:05 am)