High End Luxury Cars

24700 messages, Last post on Dec 01, 2009 at 12:24 PM

You are in the Sedans Forum. Your Hosts are pat & karens

What is this discussion about? Audi A8, BMW 7 Series, Jaguar XJ-Series, Lexus LS 460, Mercedes-Benz S-Class, Volkswagen Phaeton, Maserati Quattroporte, Mercedes-Benz CL-Class, Sedan

Let's try to define this forum as being limited to luxury performance vehicles where the mainstream version in a typical configuration has an MSRP of at least $60k.

A luxury vehicle with a base price of $59k qualifies because it would typically be bought with some additional equipment, bringing the MSRP over $60k.

Vehicles like the E, 5, A6, M, or GS, even if available in certain versions over $60k, don't qualify because they are cars from companies that have higher end cars in their lineups.

Outline

Messages Page 2003 of 2470: 1; ...; 2000; 2001; 2002; 2003; 2004; 2005; 2006; ...; 2470; Prev; Next; Last

#20020 of 24700 Re: Lexus Quality Slipping [brightness04] by hpowders Oct 17, 2006 (6:19 pm)
Replying to: brightness04 (Oct 17, 2006 6:14 pm) No bragging. Only facts. 3 years isn't 10 minutes is it? A lot can go wrong in 3 years with a vehicle. 3 BMW's. 3 leases. No trouble. Some of you folks seem to think BMW's have meltdowns as soon as they leave the dealer. I also mentioned that I would never own a BMW for the long-term, meaning out of warranty (5 years). If you go back and read post #19896 and if I recall, post #19898 as well. It's all in there. Replies to this message: brightness04 (Oct 18, 2006 8:31 am) dewey (Oct 18, 2006 8:39 am) hpowders (Oct 18, 2006 10:27 am)
#20021 of 24700 Re: This thing about the Audi image [houdini1] by tagman Oct 17, 2006 (6:32 pm)
Replying to: houdini1 (Aug 29, 2006 2:18 pm) The LS is for the U.S. only. It's called exclusivity!! Limited regional success is now exclusivity? You are really reaching! Gotta give ya credit for that. But be realistic . . . Lexus would LOVE to do better in Europe and elsewhere, and you know it. And you know they will be trying much harder to achieve some headway there. They simply haven't had the right ingredients so far. A lack of a diesel is just a part of Lexus' deficiency, and I've read many a post always blaming the lack of a diesel. That's a no-brainer. It's deeper than that. But, yes you are right that Lexus does very well in the good 'ol USA. But keep in mind that the rest of the world clearly makes a different choice. It makes good sense to consider the entire global picture, IMO. Otherwise we'd be hearing scientists telling us about USA-warming instead of global-warming. Sometimes it is good to see the whole picture . . . it doesn't get bigger than that. TagMan Replies to this message: houdini1 (Oct 17, 2006 6:48 pm) tagman (Oct 17, 2006 8:48 pm) lexusguy (Oct 17, 2006 9:57 pm) merc1 (Oct 17, 2006 10:35 pm) lexusguy (Oct 18, 2006 12:57 am) hpowders (Oct 18, 2006 10:37 am)
#20022 of 24700 Re: This thing about the Audi image [tagman] by houdini1 Oct 17, 2006 (6:48 pm)
Replying to: tagman (Oct 17, 2006 6:32 pm) Finally, a rational post. How do you think diesels and helms will mix in the U.S.? I have heard some say that they are mutually exclusive. I do not agree, what with the clean diesel and new diesel technology. I can't wait to get my hands on one of some kind. I am hereby resolving to clean my act up and cut back on some of my "spiteful" posts. I sure don't want to see this forum end up as "read only". Replies to this message: tagman (Oct 17, 2006 8:48 pm) lexusguy (Oct 17, 2006 9:57 pm)
#20023 of 24700 Re: This thing about the Audi image [houdini1] by tagman Oct 17, 2006 (8:48 pm)
Replying to: houdini1 (Oct 17, 2006 6:48 pm) with the clean diesel and new diesel technology. I can't wait to get my hands on one of some kind. I think you have a lot of company. Me included. Statistics already indicate a higher growth rate for diesels than hybrids . . . and the really good products haven't even showed up yet. The best is yet to come . . . and fortunately will be coming soon. TagMan Replies to this message: lexusguy (Oct 17, 2006 9:57 pm)
#20024 of 24700 Re: This thing about the Audi image [tagman] by lexusguy Oct 17, 2006 (9:57 pm)
Replying to: tagman (Oct 17, 2006 8:48 pm) Statistics already indicate a higher growth rate for diesels than hybrids . . . and the really good products haven't even showed up yet. The best is yet to come . . . and fortunately will be coming soon. The NYT tested the E320 CDI, and raved about it. It actually beat its EPA estimates in real world conditions. A hybrid has never, never, never beaten its EPA estimates. The inconvenient truth for hybrid owners is that the 30 year old EPA testing methods give hybrids an artificial boost that will never be achievable for anyone that uses more than a big toe on the gas pedal. Diesels are obviously not the final solution to end dependence on fossil fuels, but they are a much better interim solution than 400lbs. of batteries.
#20025 of 24700 Re: Merc [] by merc1 Oct 17, 2006 (10:08 pm)
Replying to: unknown (Oct 16, 2006 5:00 am) Well, Mercedes have never been comparison winners, save for the SL. I don't think Mercedes cares a great deal. Not true, it varies a great deal Doc. The E320 won a comparo when it was first released and various AMG cars have one comparos too. The CLK55 beat the 645Ci and Maser Coupe at C&D and the GL450 just polished off a bunch of new rivals. The S600 has never been beaten by anything, not the Rolls Phantom, BMW 760Li or anything else. So you see Doc your statement about MBs "never" being comparo winners isn't true at all. Not even close to being true. You've got to look at their whole range of car, not just the previous S430, E430, and C-Class losses. Secondly this was not about whether or not "Mercedes" cared about the comparos this was about your use of comparos to prop up Lexus being "better" and choosing to forget about them the next when we talk about any other Lexus other than the LS430. The same is probably true for Lexus. You don't want to be a bottom-feeder, in either case. But what would you rather be good at? I'm sure they don't build cars to please journalists. This is an excuse, a cop out doc. The LS430 isn't built for enthusiasts or journalists, C&D even admitted as much and yet it has still wins more often than not. The SC430 on the other hand is bottom feeder as far as comparos go. The M35/45 has put a nice string together, and can't outsell the beleaugered GS! Careful here doc because when/if it does (it has during certain months) that will make it vastly superior to the GS by your logic because the M already has the comparos on its side while the GS has gone back to lagging the pack again. You're falling on your own sword here Doc. M Replies to this message: dewey (Oct 18, 2006 8:43 am) blkhemi (Oct 18, 2006 2:49 pm)
#20027 of 24700 Re: This thing about the Audi image [dewey] by merc1 Oct 17, 2006 (10:14 pm)
Replying to: dewey (Oct 16, 2006 7:58 am) Great post! No the last words on the above paragraph are not there in error. In the past Audi has never tried to out-Bling their more ostentatious and conventional competitors like BMW, MB and Lexus. In fact Audi's understated image is one reason why I think Audis are far more successful overseas. People living beyond our shores are less concerned about image than us North Americans. (MB sold luxury for decades in Europe while every street there is covered with MB taxis). Just imagine what would happen to MB and Lexus sales if every other taxi is a Benz or Lexus in North America? Bingo! M
#20028 of 24700 Re: This thing about the Audi image [dewey] by merc1 Oct 17, 2006 (10:29 pm)
Replying to: dewey (Oct 17, 2006 10:59 am) Ok Dewey you got off another good one. Lets just face it, no other luxury brand provides the spread of product that Mercedes and BMW does. Arguably Mercedes offers too much for their own good as they seem to have every imaginable niche plugged with something. BMW is right behind them, but they still lack a true CL, SL, GL competitors. Mercedes on the other hand will build a X3 competitor in 2008 and so it goes on and on between the two of them. Audi and Lexus are getting closer to being full lineup providers or plan to, but Acura and Infiniti won't be there for years and years, if they're even planning to do so. M
#20029 of 24700 Re: I'm Hoping... [hpowders] by merc1 Oct 17, 2006 (10:32 pm)
Replying to: hpowders (Oct 17, 2006 3:43 pm) I'm hoping that the new LS 460 seats are a lot better than the ones I tried in my two 2005 LS 430 test drives. IMO they are. The old LS430's seats were like sitting on a padded park bench, good leather but absolutely no support. M Replies to this message: hpowders (Oct 18, 2006 7:16 am)