High End Luxury Cars

24685 messages, Last post on Nov 02, 2009 at 4:40 PM

You are in the Sedans Forum. Your Hosts are pat & karens

What is this discussion about? Audi A8, BMW 7 Series, Jaguar XJ-Series, Lexus LS 460, Mercedes-Benz S-Class, Volkswagen Phaeton, Maserati Quattroporte, Mercedes-Benz CL-Class, Sedan

Let's try to define this forum as being limited to luxury performance vehicles where the mainstream version in a typical configuration has an MSRP of at least $60k.

A luxury vehicle with a base price of $59k qualifies because it would typically be bought with some additional equipment, bringing the MSRP over $60k.

Vehicles like the E, 5, A6, M, or GS, even if available in certain versions over $60k, don't qualify because they are cars from companies that have higher end cars in their lineups.

Outline

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#19956 of 24685 Re: more blah blah [brightness04] by dewey Oct 16, 2006 (6:29 am)
Replying to: brightness04 (Oct 16, 2006 6:12 am) The total design and engineering budget for a new generation of 3 series is probably smaller than that of a new generation of Civic (which is 4 to 8 billion dollars nowadays). That's part of the reason why bugs are more likely to have been engineered out in the more main stream cars like Civic. Economy of scale is still incredibly important in the auto business. LOL, imagine the money I could of saved by buying a more reliable Civic versus a BMW. Darned if only I knew Not necessarily. Soft leather seats directly increase per unit cost. Accoustic engineering for a vehicle cabin is non-trivial; BMW has been wrestling with that issue for over two decades. Was BMW sweating and struggling these past few decades with their Acousitic and soft leather engineering efforts. Imagine that? Thanks for this great revelation I hope the next great space ship in our future will have good leather seats. I heard the one reason we are stuck with the Space Shuttle is because of leather seat development problems Replies to this message: brightness04 (Oct 16, 2006 6:36 am) dewey (Oct 16, 2006 6:42 am) brightness04 (Oct 16, 2006 6:44 am)
#19957 of 24685 Re: Hp [houdini1] by brightness04 Oct 16, 2006 (6:32 am)
Replying to: houdini1 (Oct 16, 2006 6:13 am) Just like the new S class borrowing design cues from the Maybach. BTW, auto business, just like the high tech business, or any other industry that has a significant innovation component, tends to play by the trickle-down modus operandi. The high value segment gets the new geewhiz first, then the mainstream benefit after some delay as it trickels down; somewhere in between is where most of the profit is made and the next innovation incentivized(ie. neither at the beginning small volume period nor the late stage commodidization).
#19958 of 24685 I would think.... by hpowders Oct 16, 2006 (6:32 am)
for the money paid and given status of the Lexus brand, its customers would want more distinctive styling and less resemblance to Toyota vehicles. If Lexus can do it with the interiors, why not the exteriors?
#19959 of 24685 Re: more blah blah [dewey] by brightness04 Oct 16, 2006 (6:36 am)
Replying to: dewey (Oct 16, 2006 6:29 am) LOL, imagine the money I could of saved by buying a more reliable Civic versus BMWs. Darned if only I knew Your point? Was BMW sweating and struggling with their Acousitic engineering and soft leather engineering. Imagine that? Actually yes. BMW charges extra for the privillages of have real leather (not even all that soft) and higher end accoustics (not even all that good by compeition standards). They are on the option list along with bigger engine and sport suspension. Space ship? I thought BMW's primary design goal is sticking to the ground. Levitation or partial levitation is a bad thing for automobiles. Replies to this message: dewey (Oct 16, 2006 6:42 am) brightness04 (Oct 16, 2006 6:44 am)
#19960 of 24685 Re: more blah blah [brightness04] by dewey Oct 16, 2006 (6:42 am)
Replying to: brightness04 (Oct 16, 2006 6:36 am) Actually yes. BMW charges extra for the privillages of have real leather (not even all that soft) and higher end accoustics (not even all that good by compeition standards). They are on the option list along with bigger engine and sport suspension Just as you had said in a previous post: BMW is a firm of marketing geniuses. Why not charge more when you can charge more? Why give it away for free when your customers are most willing to pay extra for leather seats, metallic paint, a auto tranny and an improved audio system that is not even considered as good as the standard stereos of its competitors? BMW is certainly not in the business of giving away things. At least not as good in giving away things like their competitiors. Replies to this message: brightness04 (Oct 16, 2006 6:44 am)
#19961 of 24685 Re: more blah blah [dewey] by brightness04 Oct 16, 2006 (6:44 am)
Replying to: dewey (Oct 16, 2006 6:42 am) It also goes to show that even BMW marketting thinks leather seating, good accoustics are items of value, just like bigger engine and sport suspension. And customers tend to agree.
#19962 of 24685 Re: Merc [merc1] by brightness04 Oct 16, 2006 (6:57 am)
Replying to: merc1 (Oct 15, 2006 9:39 pm) You flipped flopped continuously on these two things about the SC430 a while back, saying one wasn't as important as the other, yet with the LS both sales and comparos are equally important. LS and S class are the main volume seller of the respective platforms, whereas SC and SL are more of a spin-off. It's a bit like the 5 vs. M5 or E/S vs AMG variants. One is for volume sales, whereas the other is a bit of a marketing tool. I always wondered if M5 or E/S AMG ever made money for either of the car makers. For a first attempt, SC has not done too badly for Lexus. On the other hand, Lexus probably has realized by now that a car like Z4 makes far more money for the company than something like the SL. The key is how to sell a not too expensive model in a lot of copies without diluting brand identity. BMW has shown the way in the past couple decades.
#19963 of 24685 This thing about the Audi image by dewey Oct 16, 2006 (7:58 am)
For all its shortcomings in the U.S., Audi performs strongly elsewhere. Its brand is strong in Europe, where Audi's are seen as equals in image and performance to its better-known competitors and command similar prices. Audi has also moved aggressively overseas and has become the most popular luxury car in China. Overall, the company expects to sell 890,000 cars this year and is aiming for 1.4 million by 2015 - a position from which it might be able to claim luxury car leadership. Overseas the Audi brand is as strong as BMW or MB. But not necessarily in terms of luxury. The one reason Audis have a strong image overseas is based on their understated designs , their renowned top notch "fit and finish interiors", unique technologies, perfromance and last but not least their understated image . No the last words on the above paragraph are not there in error. In the past Audi has never tried to out-Bling their more ostentatious and conventional competitors like BMW, MB and Lexus. In fact Audi's understated image is one reason why I think Audis are far more successful overseas. People living beyond our shores are less concerned about image than us North Americans. (MB sold luxury for decades in Europe while every street there is covered with MB taxis). Just imagine what would happen to MB and Lexus sales if every other taxi is a Benz or Lexus in North America? The image of Audi is strong overseas mainly because they are considered a maker of good performaing cars for people who do not seek security and acceptance with establish luxury marques like BMW or MB. Although I am not denying there are image seekers overseas, they're just not as prevalent there as they are here in North America. And that is the reason why Audis sell better overseas. I prefer BMW cars over Audis but at the same time I prefer the low profile marketing of Audis. In fact an Audi is an anti-Lexus. An Audi is all substance with little image. While Lexus is all-image with little substance. To prove my point have you seen or heard the latest ads from Lexus. The Moments ads and in Canada there are ads "About the Most Important Things in your Life". Unfortantely both those ads have nothing to do with Lexus cars. As I said Lexus is all about image and little substance (and what little substance there is I still cant find ) SOURCE:FORTUNE link title Replies to this message: tagman (Oct 16, 2006 9:25 am) houdini1 (Oct 16, 2006 10:23 am) tagman (Oct 16, 2006 1:07 pm) and 1 more... reality2 (Oct 16, 2006 11:42 am) dewey (Oct 17, 2006 7:39 am) tagman (Oct 17, 2006 7:50 am) and 29 more... brightness04 (Oct 16, 2006 5:03 pm) dewey (Oct 17, 2006 7:31 am) tagman (Oct 17, 2006 7:37 am) brightness04 (Oct 17, 2006 1:12 pm) merc1 (Oct 17, 2006 10:14 pm)
#19964 of 24685 Re: This thing about the Audi image [dewey] by tagman Oct 16, 2006 (9:25 am)
Replying to: dewey (Oct 16, 2006 7:58 am) In fact an Audi is an anti-Lexus. An Audi is all substance with little image. While Lexus is all-image with little substance. Very big statement, dewey. If you are going to go down that path . . . here's another way to put it . . . Lexus is all sizzle without the steak, while Audi is all steak without the sizzle. Good luck. TagMan Replies to this message: houdini1 (Oct 16, 2006 10:23 am) tagman (Oct 16, 2006 1:07 pm) houdini1 (Oct 16, 2006 2:07 pm)
#19965 of 24685 Re: This thing about the Audi image [tagman] by houdini1 Oct 16, 2006 (10:23 am)
Replying to: tagman (Oct 16, 2006 9:25 am) Tag, what a wonderful line! Did you just make that up? This forum has been taken to an entirely new level. Replies to this message: tagman (Oct 16, 2006 1:07 pm) houdini1 (Oct 16, 2006 2:07 pm)