High End Luxury Cars

24697 messages, Last post on Nov 28, 2009 at 3:09 PM

You are in the Sedans Forum. Your Hosts are pat & karens

What is this discussion about? Audi A8, BMW 7 Series, Jaguar XJ-Series, Lexus LS 460, Mercedes-Benz S-Class, Volkswagen Phaeton, Maserati Quattroporte, Mercedes-Benz CL-Class, Sedan

Let's try to define this forum as being limited to luxury performance vehicles where the mainstream version in a typical configuration has an MSRP of at least $60k.

A luxury vehicle with a base price of $59k qualifies because it would typically be bought with some additional equipment, bringing the MSRP over $60k.

Vehicles like the E, 5, A6, M, or GS, even if available in certain versions over $60k, don't qualify because they are cars from companies that have higher end cars in their lineups.

Outline

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#19950 of 24697 Re: Hp [drfill] by hpowders Oct 16, 2006 (4:53 am)
Replying to: drfill (Oct 15, 2006 9:14 pm) I was referring specifically to the ES being a strange blend of too much Camry outside and all Lexus inside. Something wrong with Lexus designing its vehicles so they don't resemble Toyotas? Not worth paying a few large more for? Replies to this message: unknown (Oct 16, 2006 5:03 am) houdini1 (Oct 16, 2006 6:13 am) brightness04 (Oct 16, 2006 6:32 am)
#19951 of 24697 Re: Merc [merc1] by Oct 16, 2006 (5:00 am)
Replying to: merc1 (Oct 15, 2006 9:39 pm) True. Agreed, but why does one weigh more heavily than the other to suite whichever Lexus is being talked about? You flipped flopped continuously on these two things about the SC430 a while back, saying one wasn't as important as the other, yet with the LS both sales and comparos are equally important. Well, Mercedes have never been comparison winners, save for the SL. I don't think Mercedes cares a great deal. The same is probably true for Lexus. You don't want to be a bottom-feeder, in either case. But what would you rather be good at? I'm sure they don't build cars to please journalists. The M35/45 has put a nice string together, and can't outsell the beleaugered GS! DrFill Replies to this message: mariner7 (Oct 16, 2006 10:26 am) merc1 (Oct 17, 2006 10:08 pm) dewey (Oct 18, 2006 8:43 am) blkhemi (Oct 18, 2006 2:49 pm)
#19952 of 24697 Re: Hp [hpowders] by Oct 16, 2006 (5:03 am)
Replying to: hpowders (Oct 16, 2006 4:53 am) As long as Lexus sells them by the boatload, which it has for the last 15 years, it would be rather foolish mess with success. If it ain't broke........ The Camry and ES are both quite the lookers now! DrFill
#19953 of 24697 Re: more blah blah [tagman] by brightness04 Oct 16, 2006 (6:12 am)
Replying to: tagman (Oct 15, 2006 8:33 pm) You . . . but have said nothing of the initial design and engineering costs that would be also be necessary. The total design and engineering budget for a new generation of 3 series is probably smaller than that of a new generation of Civic (which is 4 to 8 billion dollars nowadays). That's part of the reason why bugs are more likely to have been engineered out in the more main stream cars like Civic. Economy of scale is still incredibly important in the auto business. being able to switch driving modes also adds cost, as you should know. I don't think being able to switch driving modes is an essential characteristic of any of the marques. It's one of the more recent gimmicks. it certainly costs less, and definately takes less engineering and know-how to put in soft leather seats and a good stereo than it does to build good performance attributes. Not necessarily. Soft leather seats directly increase per unit cost. Accoustic engineering for a vehicle cabin is non-trivial; BMW has been wrestling with that issue for over two decades. Replies to this message: dewey (Oct 16, 2006 6:29 am) brightness04 (Oct 16, 2006 6:36 am) dewey (Oct 16, 2006 6:42 am) and 1 more...
#19954 of 24697 Re: Hp [hpowders] by houdini1 Oct 16, 2006 (6:13 am)
Replying to: hpowders (Oct 16, 2006 4:53 am) You have got things backwards. Lexus, like our greatest President, uses the trickle down theory. Styling cues now trickle down from Lexus to Toyota. Rather than pull Lexus down, which would be impossible, it pulls Toyota up. Seems to be working quite well. Replies to this message: brightness04 (Oct 16, 2006 6:32 am)
#19955 of 24697 Re: Missing the Forest for the Trees [danogo] by brightness04 Oct 16, 2006 (6:22 am)
Replying to: danogo (Oct 15, 2006 8:14 pm) Long lines for gas was the result of price control. The artificially controlled low price was what produced the odd spectacle of people waiting in long lines to gets gas, while wasting gas idling at the same time. As much as I like hybrids and believe eventually electric cars will prevail due to local pollution plus NVH/maintenance reasons, I have to wonder from time to time how much of the "voting for the planet" is just a new form of religion . . . repent, for the judgement day is nigh
#19956 of 24697 Re: more blah blah [brightness04] by dewey Oct 16, 2006 (6:29 am)
Replying to: brightness04 (Oct 16, 2006 6:12 am) The total design and engineering budget for a new generation of 3 series is probably smaller than that of a new generation of Civic (which is 4 to 8 billion dollars nowadays). That's part of the reason why bugs are more likely to have been engineered out in the more main stream cars like Civic. Economy of scale is still incredibly important in the auto business. LOL, imagine the money I could of saved by buying a more reliable Civic versus a BMW. Darned if only I knew Not necessarily. Soft leather seats directly increase per unit cost. Accoustic engineering for a vehicle cabin is non-trivial; BMW has been wrestling with that issue for over two decades. Was BMW sweating and struggling these past few decades with their Acousitic and soft leather engineering efforts. Imagine that? Thanks for this great revelation I hope the next great space ship in our future will have good leather seats. I heard the one reason we are stuck with the Space Shuttle is because of leather seat development problems Replies to this message: brightness04 (Oct 16, 2006 6:36 am) dewey (Oct 16, 2006 6:42 am) brightness04 (Oct 16, 2006 6:44 am)
#19957 of 24697 Re: Hp [houdini1] by brightness04 Oct 16, 2006 (6:32 am)
Replying to: houdini1 (Oct 16, 2006 6:13 am) Just like the new S class borrowing design cues from the Maybach. BTW, auto business, just like the high tech business, or any other industry that has a significant innovation component, tends to play by the trickle-down modus operandi. The high value segment gets the new geewhiz first, then the mainstream benefit after some delay as it trickels down; somewhere in between is where most of the profit is made and the next innovation incentivized(ie. neither at the beginning small volume period nor the late stage commodidization).
#19958 of 24697 I would think.... by hpowders Oct 16, 2006 (6:32 am)
for the money paid and given status of the Lexus brand, its customers would want more distinctive styling and less resemblance to Toyota vehicles. If Lexus can do it with the interiors, why not the exteriors?
#19959 of 24697 Re: more blah blah [dewey] by brightness04 Oct 16, 2006 (6:36 am)
Replying to: dewey (Oct 16, 2006 6:29 am) LOL, imagine the money I could of saved by buying a more reliable Civic versus BMWs. Darned if only I knew Your point? Was BMW sweating and struggling with their Acousitic engineering and soft leather engineering. Imagine that? Actually yes. BMW charges extra for the privillages of have real leather (not even all that soft) and higher end accoustics (not even all that good by compeition standards). They are on the option list along with bigger engine and sport suspension. Space ship? I thought BMW's primary design goal is sticking to the ground. Levitation or partial levitation is a bad thing for automobiles. Replies to this message: dewey (Oct 16, 2006 6:42 am) brightness04 (Oct 16, 2006 6:44 am)