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Sedans High End Luxury Cars
24700 messages, Last post on Dec 01, 2009 at 12:24 PM
You are in the Sedans Forum. Your Hosts are pat & karens
Let's try to define this forum as being limited to luxury performance vehicles where the mainstream version in a typical configuration has an MSRP of at least $60k.
A luxury vehicle with a base price of $59k qualifies because it would typically be bought with some additional equipment, bringing the MSRP over $60k.
Vehicles like the E, 5, A6, M, or GS, even if available in certain versions over $60k, don't qualify because they are cars from companies that have higher end cars in their lineups.
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Replying to: pat (Oct 15, 2006 8:13 am) I agree 90 days does not mean much for me because I own my cars for about six to seven years. But the fact is automakeres use JD and Vision 90 day statistics in their advertisements to tout how wonderful their cars are. |
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Replying to: merc1 (Oct 15, 2006 8:26 am) More like 30K is possible. BTW, If 40K isn't exclusive, is 30K exclusive? Let's stop spinning people's posts as is usual with this general crowd. Nobody ever said Benz or even implied Benz or BMW would go out of business because of Lexus growth. There is room for everyone in the market. As usual read posts as they are instead of spinning posts. Yeah, I know, it ain't gonna happen.
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Replying to: houdini1 (Oct 15, 2006 7:21 am) You dont believe that BMW is a luxury marque? You dont believe the results of a satisfaction survey and try to dilute its significance by stating that BMW is number one because of the MINI and 3 series while in fact the survey itself states no such thing? What exactly is your point? |
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Replying to: maxhonda99 (Oct 15, 2006 8:42 am) Then you haven't been paying attention to this forum for the last few years. This has been implied over and over and everytime a new Lexus appears it is at the demise of Lexus. You'd have to have been away for months at a time a number of times to not have seen this. The average LS460 still starts out in the 60's and we don't know what the average one will sell for yet so the 80K comment is just a guess at best. 30K units is more exclusive than 40K units. M
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I'll take the bait.  Merc and Dewey I'm a very positive Lexus fans, but I'm more than willing to look for ways to improve. Considering the fact that Lexus has been the #1 selling lux marque in the US for several years, Lexus vehicles have gotten MUCH better with redesigned ES, IS and LS models. The GS is nothing special, but the 3.5 helps. As I've said on many occassions, I'd rather they built something along the controversial lines of the 5-series, which wasn't exactly welcomed with open arms a few years ago. It's a decent car, but a hedged bet, and Lexus at least seems to be admitting as much. They see the accolades the M gets, even with rather tasteless styling, and it is being taken seriously against the 5-series. Maybe the Next GS will be a bigger IS? Which is what was, and is required. They are, at best, dissimilar, and it shows in market share. The GS450h is fast, and it is efficient, but it doesn't seem to have anymore tricks up it's sleeve, and it certainly isn't dynamic like M45 and 550i. The IS is nothing short of a success, with some small caveats. The nits are VDIM (fixed), rear seat room (a deal breaker for many, I'm sure), and the manual 350 issue, which doesn't seem to be an issue for cars like G35 and 330/335i. I think a lot of marques would like to call an IS their own. And it is a definite sighn that Lexus can build stylish, desirable cars, regardless of price of class. I'm expecting greatness from the IS Hardtop Conv.  The SC is another very successful car for Lexus, but it should evolve into something more dynamic and, interactive. And yes, I still find the car attractive, to this day, inside and out. But it is not SL. But it doesn't need to be. I want the HPX produced, which seems to be in the cards, the future GX and LX to get fold-flat rear seats, and no Rav4 derivitive taking on RDX/X3. Not worth it. Regarding what seem to be issues with my posts regarding sales, exclusivity, and price, Lexus goes as the LS goes. Lexus NEEDS the LS to use it's valuable name and market recognition to cover the $65-100k premium lux class, and the New LS is more than capable of doing that. It WILL appeal to current customers, and obtain conquest sales. It WILL sell more than the S-Class next year. As it should. It WILL be the best car Lexus has ever made, and WILL raise the image and cache of Lexus, as a whole. Sales will rise considerably, as have prices. So Lexus will have problems establishing exclusivity, but the LS600 will make that approach. The ES and LS are outstanding vehicles, and will accomplish Lexus goals. Hopefully, future redesigns of the GS and SC will be as exciting and impactful as the IS and LS. I believe Lexus knows what needs to be done.  I have no comment on any rumors above the LS600. Raising Lexus LS prices is good to for long-term business, and will help the marque's desirablity. The LS460 will continue being an excellent value, and is now a real threat to LWB S550. DrFill
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Replying to: pat (Oct 15, 2006 8:13 am) Very true, Pat. Good point. It would seem, however, that if a buyer has initial regrets (buyer's remorse) about the purchase, it will typically happen within 90 days. Additionally, production issues and defective parts/assembly issues will very often show up early on. The focus on the vehicle is intensified during the initial days and weeks, and a more significant overall opinion of the vehicle is being formed . . . one that goes past the initial love affair in the showroom. So, there is definately merit to both the initial quality and satisfaction of a vehicle. The long-term reliability is different, and overall, it represents one of the most important pieces of data about a vehicle. This is why Consumer reports has such an impact, even though they incorrectly "project" reliability at times. For the most part, however, CR provides important insight into many vehicle's likely reliability. Long-term satisfaction would be yet another measurement, because even if the reliability were somewhat compromised, but the owenr just loved the way the vehicle performed or satisfied many other various conditions for ownership, then that owner could be very satisfied independent of reliability. Reliability is only one measurement of what makes a vehicle satisfy the needs of the owner, and as we can see, satisfaction and reliability can both change independently over time. So, yes, 90 days is important, but of course so is 1 year, 2 years, and even well beyond. TagMan |
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Replying to: blckislandguy (Oct 15, 2006 8:06 am) I have leased 3 BMW vehicles. No reliability issues. Only oil changes accompanied by Famous Amos cookies and delicious coffee while I wait. I will be doing 2 year leases in the future. BMW leasing deals have been incredible over 24 months ( with residuals of 70% in some cases) and of course, it will allow me drive more vehicles over the years.
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