Last post on Jan 28, 2013 at 5:55 PM
You are in the Sedans
What is this discussion about?
Audi A8, BMW 7 Series, Jaguar XJ-Series, Lexus LS 460, Mercedes-Benz S-Class, Volkswagen Phaeton, Maserati Quattroporte, Mercedes-Benz CL-Class, Sedan
Let's try to define this forum as being limited to luxury performance vehicles where the mainstream version in a typical configuration has an MSRP of at least $60k.
A luxury vehicle with a base price of $59k qualifies because it would typically be bought with some additional equipment, bringing the MSRP over $60k.
Vehicles like the E, 5, A6, M, or GS, even if available in certain versions over $60k, don't qualify because they are cars from companies that have higher end cars in their lineups.
#19841 of 24726 BMW and its worries
Oct 14, 2006 (9:13 am)
I don’t think BMW is worried about anything or anyone. They are clearly moving to the beat of their own drum, and that beat is platform diversity and innovation, or at least the appearance of innovation. If they were worried about Porsche they wouldn’t have produced such models as the Z3, Z4, the M varieties of the two-seaters and the Z2 in the near future.
Worried about Lexus? Ooh no. BMW became the largest luxury car manufacturer during the rise of Lexus, in spite of Lexus. If anything, BMW should worry about the quality its own judgment as an independent thinker. Perhaps they should also worry about not worrying. iDrive, active steering, run-flat tires, seat belt feeders, styling, SMG, hydrogen ICE… questionable “innovations”.
And as the rising tide of automotive sales has lifted many ships, BMWs impeccable branding has provided the buoyancy. This increases almost exponentially with their aggressive platform diversity in recent years. In addition, xDrive AWD was a booster rocket. BMW ain't got nuthin' bothering them, so it seems.
BTW, here's a recent interview with Adrian van Hooydonk of BMW. It gives a little insight into their design process. I question their creative approach and creative results but it's a worthy read:
An Interview with BMW's Chief Designer
And here's some imagination with the Z2 which may appear in 2010. I actually like the styling much better than the Z4 even though it still has a cartoon countenance. I could see myself tooling around in something like this:
BMW Z2 concept
#19842 of 24726 Re: BMW and its worries [designman]
Oct 14, 2006 (9:47 am)
Please don't make me laugh. BMW only has one vehicle that even qualifies as a helm. The 7 series is the only true luxury auto that they build, and it is the tail end charlie of this group.
World's leading luxury car mfg.? You sure you don't want to think about that statement? They build some good performance cars but not helms. There is a difference.
#19844 of 24726 Re: BMW and its worries [houdini1]
Oct 14, 2006 (12:23 pm)
World's leading luxury car mfg.? You sure you don't want to think about that statement? They build some good performance cars but not helms.
Luxury does include premium performance autos. Therefore BMW is the number one luxury car maker in the world.
I know an elder gentleman who thinks Buicks are the best luxury cars today. I guess you and him have similar definitions of luxury which would include Buicks and rebadged Camrys and Highlanders.
#19845 of 24726 Strategic Vision Survey
Oct 14, 2006 (1:28 pm)
Well I finally got to see all the different segment winners in this recently quoted survey that measured perceived VALUE by questioning 64,000 new vehicle owners. Honda was named overall best coropration.
In the luxury car division first place was a tie between the Lexus LS 430, Acura RL, and Audi A8. Hard to argue with that. All fine automobiles. Hats off to the retiring LS for still winning with the older model.
#19846 of 24726 Re: BMW and its worries [dewey]
Oct 14, 2006 (1:38 pm)
I can certainly understand why any elderly Canadian gentleman would like Buicks. After all, they are made in the U.S.A. At the moment I can't seem to recall too many successful Canadian auto companies.
#19848 of 24726 Re: BMW and its worries [designman]
Oct 14, 2006 (4:00 pm)
Well, if you want to count the Mini and the 3 series as luxury autos I suppose you can, but I don't. Take their sales out and you don't have much left. I guess we will just have to disagree on the definition of luxury.
I don't see "brands" listed for this helm forum. I see individual cars. Led, of course, by the mighty LS. And yes, I am still laughing.
#19849 of 24726 Re: BMW and its worries [designman]
Oct 14, 2006 (4:09 pm)
By the way, a HELM is the brand, not the car. And if BMW has only “one true luxury auto” how many do you think Lexus has?
Bingo and checkmate!
Of course, BMW easily qualifies as a HELM, and I can just bet that the Lexus board has got to be laughing as the HELM board argues whether or not BMW qualifies as a HELM and whether or not BMW is shaking in its boots from the threat of Lexus.
Bottom line reality is clear enough. . .
1. BMW is a HELM
2. No shaking boots.
#19850 of 24726 Re: BMW and its worries [tagman]
Oct 14, 2006 (4:39 pm)
Tagman, what makes ME laugh is the fascination with sales that some of the Lexus fans have. As an example to the contrary you rarely if ever hear sales talk coming from Porsche fans and buyers. Most of them don’t revel in Porsche’s success. They couldn’t care less and as a matter of fact many of them are disturbed by Porsche’s efforts to sell in volume. They also complain about the high prices—completely the opposite.
However, after reading the Lexus forums and considering all that has transpired over the years in this thread I’ve come to the conclusion that it is less than a handful of Lexus buyers that are infatuated with sales. The others just focus on the cars, reliability and value as they should. It is those few that try whip the others into a frenzy over sales and the fatuous desire for Lexus to increase prices.