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Sedans High End Luxury Cars
24700 messages, Last post on Dec 01, 2009 at 12:24 PM
You are in the Sedans Forum. Your Hosts are pat & karens
Let's try to define this forum as being limited to luxury performance vehicles where the mainstream version in a typical configuration has an MSRP of at least $60k.
A luxury vehicle with a base price of $59k qualifies because it would typically be bought with some additional equipment, bringing the MSRP over $60k.
Vehicles like the E, 5, A6, M, or GS, even if available in certain versions over $60k, don't qualify because they are cars from companies that have higher end cars in their lineups.
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Realty2, Tagman, Blkhemi and Dhamilton, Obviously image, luxury and performance are strongly linked for all HELM manufacturers and buyers. And among all of the manufactureres there is not one that is hundred percent product-obsessed. We all know Audi makes amazing products . But why mention that they want to raise prices by raising their image? What auto company says that? The smarter approach is let the product sell itself at higher prices without boasting about higher prices. Sort of like what Lexus will accomplish by increasing the selection of LS models (SWB, LWB, hybrid). A desirable V10 TDI DSG product will likely cause a stir and many waiting lists of buyers willing to pay big $$$ for such an Audi. Why should Audi even bother mentioning the need of raising their image in order to raise prices? Is it mere coincidence that the priciest Audis have the longest waiting lists (R8, RS and S models)? No and such waiting lists contradict any notion of an image problem. That was my point.
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Replying to: hpowders (Oct 12, 2006 5:10 pm) I think it's too late Howard. I heard Lexus has already issued a restraining order against you. As soon as I am within a few yards from a Lexus dealerhip I can already hear the barks of German Shepherd attack dogs. The only way we can both redeem ourselves is by saying very nice things about Lexus. My biggest challenge right now is visiting a Lexus forum without getting kicked out. 
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Since we seem to be on the "How to fix Audi" issue, I say stop making such lame commercials, and drop the 4-cylinder motors. HEMLs done do 4-bangers. And Americans don't buy luxury 4-cylinders. Unless you consider the first Nissan Altima. I am getting d----- chills from the 1993 Nissan Altima, doh.  DrFill |
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Replying to: dewey (Oct 12, 2006 5:45 pm) Because it is the truth. Gotta give 'em credit for speakin' the truth. All of us know that Audi has been an underdog in the States, while a company like BMW for example, is running like a Swiss watch. If we all agree here that their cars are close enough to Mercedes and BMW in terms of quality, and in some ways even superior, then why is it that they sell in such miniscule numbers by comparison here in the States. Image. And it needs a boost. The cars are fine and getting even more exciting all the time. The image needs a boost. Period. The larger public's perception of Audi needs to be raised up. The primary point of the Reuters report was that Audi is looking to get profitable, and they recognize that their image is compromised. To command the price increases necessary to make the proper margins, they need to be sure that their image will support those prices. Heck, even at current prices, they don't sell like hotcakes. But since they truly are terrific vehicles, the missing link is the public's perceptions. So, the truth is that it is time for some image enhancement that coincides with the attempt to be profitable. This is sound and healthy business, IMO. I give Audi kudos for the courage to say that their cars are better than perceived and that their image needs improvement, and I have to also give them credit for trying to run at a profit here in the States. That's the right business decision to become the profitable company that they rightly deserve to be, and do what it takes. TagMan
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blkhemi - this is a sobering article. Just when you truly believe that Audi understands the difference between diesels and hybrids . . . they announce that they are going to sell a hybrid. And, in a Q7 of all things. Audi Q7 hybrid in 2008 What the heck is going on here? TagMan
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Tag, my sentiments exactly. What other car company will admit that the public awareness of it's product is lacking? For example, if I told someone that Audi makes 16 different variants of the A4, they'd probably look at me as tho I've got 3 eyeballs in my head. The point is, even tho Audi is the low man on the totem pole, the company is making strides to correct the loose ends. I reported this way back at the beginning of the year that Audi will be a force to be reckoned with in the coming months as the company will flip a 180 in the States, thus opening new endeavors for themselves. The product that's coming to the States- S3, RS 6, A7, Q5, R8/10- should be enough to stave off any doubts about where they're headed. There is a certain stigma that's attached the Audi brand, particularly it's A8, that's unfortunate here in the States. I will go on record again, this is my favorite luxury car company, followed by MBZ. So when there is something that has to be hashed out around here about them, I'll surely be there to correct it... Doc, that little 4-cyl engine that you want them to kill accounts for about 68% of all A3/A4 sales, so I don't think they'll part with anytime soon. The same can be said about your car company Lexus. Why does every IS I see is an IS250, not the much better IS350? Because that particular car represents a much better value over it's more expensive variant. The same with Audi. The little 200hp 2.0T hooked with DSG beats out most 6 cyl. cars in it's class(save for the 3.5L Lexus and the new 3-Series Turbo) and it gets 34 mpg, so Doc, it's a no-brainer. Yes I know, certain people think that in order to be considered a luxo ride, it has to be at least a V6. Well there are 45k buyers a year that thinks otherwise..... |
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In order to be different than the German cars, Lexus is going to go down their own path, against the coming German wave of diesels, and against the publics perception. Diesel is a path Lexus wants to travel, but the main goal of the Japanese label is to gain market share from its German competitors by competing in the hybrid niche. In order for this to happen, Schlicht concedes that the perception the public has for hybrid technology must evolve. Further, he adds that “Lexus does not want to follow the German’s with diesels because that way the company could only be good followers. We want to create our own segments for cars with smaller motors.” Lexus wants full range to be hybrid TagMan
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Replying to: tagman (Oct 12, 2006 7:46 pm) The technology is said to take the diesel to over 400hp and 670lb-ft of torque and and increase mileage by over 35%, thus creating a whopping 600+ mile range. One quibble tho: This won't be sold in all 50 states because the EPA won't give it certification on the hybrid and emission compliance. Go figure.
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Replying to: blkhemi (Oct 12, 2006 8:04 pm) You're talking serious numbers here. We are finally seeing the truth about just how much energy and/or power can be extracted from a freakin drop of fuel. TagMan |
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Very interesting that Audi says they want to raise prices to match BMW and Mercedes. Steve would love this if were being said by Lexus. This has to be done very carefully and very gradually, but it is doable. Audi's main problem like others have stated is image. Their being linked to VW, or simply put being though of as an expensive VW by too many potential buyers. Some of this is Audi's own fault. Audi goes tall and big with grilles and the VW does something very similar. Why? It makes for confusion. Next, VW and Audi's whole corporate structure in this country needs to be seperated, if it hasn't already been. VW bungles model introductions on the regular and promises cars and they arrive months late. Audi doesn't seem to have this problem so maybe this one has already been done. I mean cut all ties to VW's mess in this country except for what it is totally transparent to Audi buyers and dealers alike. Audi needs to stop denying the U.S. market their best cars. As far as I can see they've got the hint on this point, so strike that off the list now. Only thing, we still don't get that awesome RS4 Cabriolet. Audi's advertising is just awful. That "streets of tomorrow" commercial with the Q7 rolling around the downtown area of a any city U.S.A. is just completely forgettable. Audi needs to show the interiors of their cars and present the lineup as a whole to show the public that they have (IMO) the best looking, most cohesive lineup of cars of any luxury brand. Quattro believe it or not needs to pushed back in advertising because MB, BMW, Acura, Cadillac, Infiniti and Lexus all have AWD on some models or or lot of them depending on the brand in question. Quattro is no longer a clear Audi advantage. Audi needs to show their interiors, exterior styling, hp (well now that gas prices are dropping) and most of all some of their engineering and design features such as direct-injection and aluminum construction. Show the really exotic engineering like MB used to do when they lived by "Engineered like no other car in the World". Audi needs an image driven advertising campain, not a "hard sell" one. Lastly, Audi' needs more dealers. They're noticebly absent in smaller towns where MB/BMW/Lexus are present, especially in the south. I actually believe that in some of MB/BMW/Lexus' bigger markets people don't even think about Audi because of Quattro (i.e heavy and useless 4wd) and in Cali or Florida what would be the point? Regional advertising is the key for Audi. Quattro driven in the North and Northwest and performance/image/interiors more so in the South and Southwest espeically in the more image driven markets. I just know America would love Audi if given the chance to experience them more. What is there not to like? M
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