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Sedans High End Luxury Cars
24700 messages, Last post on Dec 01, 2009 at 12:24 PM
You are in the Sedans Forum. Your Hosts are pat & karens
Let's try to define this forum as being limited to luxury performance vehicles where the mainstream version in a typical configuration has an MSRP of at least $60k.
A luxury vehicle with a base price of $59k qualifies because it would typically be bought with some additional equipment, bringing the MSRP over $60k.
Vehicles like the E, 5, A6, M, or GS, even if available in certain versions over $60k, don't qualify because they are cars from companies that have higher end cars in their lineups.
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Replying to: blkhemi (Oct 10, 2006 2:44 pm) |
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Replying to: hpowders (Oct 10, 2006 2:36 pm) When looking for "off the wall", HP, just read you posts! I agree. BMW will be surging ahead while Lexus, as I see it, has already begun its sad decline. With the new LS, Lexus has managed to "evolve" this vehicle backward. Compared to the outgoing LS 430, it takes the new LS 460 thirty more feet (!!) to stop the car from 70 mph, according to Car & Driver-a performance they referred to as "pitiful." Why, Lexus can't even get its act together on providing accurate acceleration data, as the 2 numbers provided by Lexus to the aforementioned magazine were both "faster" by more than 0.5 seconds! Pretty embarrassing stuff. I ask, where's the rebuttal from Lexus? Not to worry, BMW 7 Series, Mercedes Benz S-Class, or Audi A 8. Too many points, so little time!  As has been explained hundreds of times, accelerations times vary WILDLY, from venue to venue, tire to tire, one climate or elevation to another. I've seen an LS430 tested at 5.9, and I'm sure Lexus would know if the new car was slower than the old car. The seem pretty confident, and forgive me if I'm more confident in their assessment than yours. You mention the Germans as some type of Final Solution to the Lexus Situation. You forgot that the raggedy old LS430 already beat these cars, rather handily in a 2005 C&D comparison. Look at it this way, the LS430, on an off day, is as good a car as any German ubersedan, mostly because it's smart enough not to p--- off it's owner, someone the Germans don't seem to care about.  If you see evidence of a "sad decline", and that's your argument, than please tell me what Lincoln is in? Lexus' main problem is they are getting to popular to fast! And the better they get, the more they sell! Where does it end? How many sales records do they intend to break anyway? Audi never really got high enough to "decline", did they? Think they wish they has Lexus' problems? BMW does build World Class vehicles, but if you can't see that Lexus does as well, that says a lot. I have no problem complimenting Mercedes or BMW. They are rather incredible marques. You like to lump Auid's A8 in with them, but I haven't seen a wave of agreement here, or in the press. But...... there's a new Sheriff in town.....  DrFill
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Replying to: tagman (Oct 10, 2006 12:41 pm) I dont know what Dr. Z speech Blkhemi is referring to but it appears the urea bladder is MB's 50 State solution. The EPA had issues with the bladder but now it appears that they have become more leanient and will accept it. Here is a blurb from a current Fortune Magazine: To pass the strictest air-quality rules, part two of Mercedes' plan involves adding a small tank of urea, an ammonia-like fluid that further neutralizes pollution. The EPA's Oge says that while the agency has been leery of emissions systems that require maintenance, it will back Mercedes' approach. SOURCE:Fortune The Honda solution appears superior than the Blutec solution since they will be able to pass the emissions requirement for every State without a urea bladder: Honda - a company long associated with hybrids - announced a catalytic-converter breakthrough that requires no fluid additives, saying it will deliver 50-state models by 2009. |
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Replying to: drfill (Oct 10, 2006 7:08 pm) Anyhow, on the decline of Lincoln, we can both agree. I pray when I get picked up to go to the airport that it will not be one of those dreadfully ostentatious, seedy, stretched to the max Lincolns with 12 bottles of booze staring me in the face at 5AM! But sure enough, it always is! I hope you are correct in your analysis, and I look forward to reading what some of the other big auto mags say about the braking and acceleration of the new LS. Wish they would hurry up. Even though I am a BMW man at heart, I want the new LS to succeed since it will force the others to improve and we all benefit. Hence, my frustration concerning the C&D findings. Let's go, Mets!!! 
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Replying to: tagman (Oct 10, 2006 8:24 am) This part: While I maintain that Lexus is not equivalent to BMW, I do think they could close the gap, over time. And, Lexus will take some increased market share from those buyers that are not as brand loyal, and from those that do not fully appreciate the special nature of BMW vehicles. Is what I meant by Lexus taking the BMW pretenders or wannabes. Lexus will take some from this group for sure, no doubt so I think we're on the same page here as we are most of the time. Heck even I like the IS350, but would I take it over a 335i? Nope. I never underestimate Lexus, and try not to overestimate them either. For BMW, Mercedes, and others, it would be foolish to ever turn their back on Lexus, however. It would also be foolish to let Lexus overly distract or derail them (BMW, Mercedes, etc.) from their own directions. I agree totally, and I think BMW and Mercedes have learned enough in the U.S. market not to blow Lexus off in Europe. Once Lexus gets some serious diesels and creates more European friendly designs they'll gain market share in Europe too, no doubt. M
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Replying to: hpowders (Oct 10, 2006 7:37 pm) Your lucky! Everytime I get picked up to go to the Airport I end up in the very same non-stretched rusty 1991 Crown Victoria Limousine with a bar that would make any AA member proud. |
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Replying to: merc1 (Oct 10, 2006 8:08 pm) In fact I acutally chose a 335i over a IS350. But I think it is a bit harsh to call Lexus IS drivers BMW wannabes and pretenders. They just have different priorities. A person who wants a fast car like the IS without the harsh ride of a sport packaged 335i is not neccessarily a BMW wannabe. In fact he is more likely to be someone who defines sport/luxury/ride/quality very differently from a enthusiast BMW buyer. MB C Class and Lexus IS drivers have a lot in common to each others. Just as BMW 3 drivers and Infiniti G drivers have a lot in common with each others. Calling a IS driver a BMW 3 wannabe is like calling a BMW 3 driver a MB C Class wannabe. That as you know is not the case at all.
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Replying to: ivan_99 (Oct 10, 2006 2:04 pm) It's a good perspective that has merit, and I like it. But another problem that makes it all difficult is that Lexus so often is the one with the "value" card, as well as being super-reliable. People have made this a big deal . . . too big a deal, IMO. TagMan |
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Replying to: scottphillip (Oct 10, 2006 9:38 am) M |
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Replying to: dewey (Oct 10, 2006 12:24 pm) M
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