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Sedans High End Luxury Cars
24700 messages, Last post on Dec 01, 2009 at 12:24 PM
You are in the Sedans Forum. Your Hosts are pat & karens
Let's try to define this forum as being limited to luxury performance vehicles where the mainstream version in a typical configuration has an MSRP of at least $60k.
A luxury vehicle with a base price of $59k qualifies because it would typically be bought with some additional equipment, bringing the MSRP over $60k.
Vehicles like the E, 5, A6, M, or GS, even if available in certain versions over $60k, don't qualify because they are cars from companies that have higher end cars in their lineups.
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Replying to: merc1 (Oct 09, 2006 10:16 pm) No explanation is necessary. I understand. Of course, BMW has its own unique, and special, build-quality and performance attributes. It's been a while now since I first brought attention to the reality of Lexus placing BMW in their crosshairs. There has definately been a greater acceptance of this now on this board, but there is a need for clarity. You might as well get used to the fact that Lexus will continue to strive to compete with BMW, as well as Mercedes, of course. While Audi and others are in the arena, I do not believe that Lexus has directly targeted them as they have Mercedes and now more recently BMW. Lexus is certainly not BMW, and with regards to all my posts about this topic, I think this needs to be clarified. I have never said, nor am I saying that Lexus is equivalent to BMW in any way. Lexus has their own credits, and they are different than BMW's. While I maintain that Lexus is not equivalent to BMW, I do think they could close the gap, over time. And, Lexus will take some increased market share from those buyers that are not as brand loyal, and from those that do not fully appreciate the special nature of BMW vehicles. Additionally, Lexus will market itself to be more of a performance vehicle than it really is. We already see these types of commercials with racing Lexus vehicles and slogans like "you can't lose". There should be no doubt that people will be swayed. I am concerned about some of these commercials, as I find them on the border of misrepresentation. The slogan "you can't lose" is very clever, and almost misleading, IMO. None of this makes a Lexus as good as a BMW, IMO. It just means that Lexus can improve the performance of their vehicles enough to satisfy a segment of the market and increase their share. The future concern is that Lexus could decide to invest in greater performance, especially if they see themselves making serious inroads into BMW territory. Also, there is the risk, but unknown yet, that BMW will take their latest technology direction too far down another iDrive-type path, and frustrate too many purists with overly complicated technology. I never underestimate Lexus, and try not to overestimate them either. For BMW, Mercedes, and others, it would be foolish to ever turn their back on Lexus, however. It would also be foolish to let Lexus overly distract or derail them (BMW, Mercedes, etc.) from their own directions. Overall, I have very strong faith and confidence in BMW, and I was glad to read that Reithofer keeps a concerned eye on Lexus, as he should, but mostly has his eye on the future of BMW, where it truly belongs. Let's just hope his vision of BMW's future is 20/20. TagMan
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So far, I am loving the Audi. It rides a little stiffly, but not for a performance car. Also, the V10 is quieter than I expected. It lacks the rumble of the AMG cars. I posted photos of the Audi in Car Space.
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Replying to: scottphillip (Oct 10, 2006 9:38 am) 
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Replying to: merc1 (Oct 09, 2006 10:19 pm)  (this is according to the mbusa.com website).
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Replying to: petrie3 (Oct 10, 2006 12:01 pm) |
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Replying to: tagman (Oct 10, 2006 8:24 am) Cant really argue with any of your points.
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Replying to: merc1 (Oct 09, 2006 10:19 pm) Ok, Merc dont let it get to your head. Remember there is also a company called Honda that has solved the bladder problems that MB is currently afflicted with 
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Replying to: dewey (Oct 10, 2006 12:23 pm) Cant really argue with any of your points. There's always the "other" board, if you're looking for trouble. (Of course, I'm just kidding, but someone could think otherwise, as you know.) BTW, blkhemi did respond to my question about whether or not BlueTec was recently improved enough to eliminate the need for the urea additive (in the 5 most restrictive states, including California, where I reside). I believe he indicated that he heard it on a car show on the Speed channel, and inferred that Doc Z (Dieter Zetsche) himself provided the information. I have been trying tried hard to corroborate that, but so far I can not find anything whatsoever to support that. I hope it is true. If you come across something that can verify the accuracy of that information, that would be cool, as I know you are also interested in this. Otherwise, as you indicated, Honda will have the edge, while MB will be stuck with "bladder problems".  TagMan
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Replying to: tagman (Oct 10, 2006 8:24 am) I see the inverse happening. With new technologies such as adaptive suspension, new tire compounds, variable rim sizes etc, I see BMW taking sales away from Lexus (eventually). If you can have a BMW hand like BMW's do, but at slow speeds (or when the desired) have a soft mushy luxury ride...why not choose it over the Lexus Once you have developed a solid vehicle that handles superbly...I see it being an “easier” task to make it luxurious than making a mushy car sporty. The only problem with this theory is it assumes that the “mushy” people care at all about the sporty side. |
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Replying to: tagman (Oct 10, 2006 8:24 am) The name of the game is INCOME for the manufacturers and their stockholders. Why would Lexus/Toyota want to be like BMW and sell fewer cars? On the other hand I can well see why BMW would want to be as successful as Lexus/Toyota.
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