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Sedans High End Luxury Cars
24700 messages, Last post on Dec 01, 2009 at 12:24 PM
You are in the Sedans Forum. Your Hosts are pat & karens
Let's try to define this forum as being limited to luxury performance vehicles where the mainstream version in a typical configuration has an MSRP of at least $60k.
A luxury vehicle with a base price of $59k qualifies because it would typically be bought with some additional equipment, bringing the MSRP over $60k.
Vehicles like the E, 5, A6, M, or GS, even if available in certain versions over $60k, don't qualify because they are cars from companies that have higher end cars in their lineups.
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Replying to: tagman (Oct 09, 2006 7:12 am) Lexus simply put just isn't going to build a machine as hardcore as Sport packaged, manual tranny BMW. Also, I really don't seem them making something like an M3 or M5 when it comes to track work. Lexus' reason for being is Mercedes-Benz and it will stay that way IMO. BMW is a different thing all together and they've proven so far that they aren't really serious about tackling BMW. What Lexus will do however is pull some BMW intenders or wannabes, not their traditional fan base, unless they make some fairly radical changes to what they think a peformance car should be. This would shop Infiniti (G35s specifically) before Lexus. Guys like Habitat, Blueguydotcom and others on the ELLPS board. You should check out that board, they're a lively group. Ask Habitat who steered him in the right direction concerning his 911.  M
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Replying to: dewey (Oct 09, 2006 7:19 am) Isn't this grand! The more things change the mroe they stay the same, Mercedes-Benz showing the way!!! M
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Replying to: hpowders (Oct 09, 2006 3:45 pm) I agree, this is just another nail in the coffin for the whole "performance hybrid" idea. The 450h managed just 20mpg, 3 better than the big German 8s. I think trunk space, handling, and a proper transmission are worth the extra few dollars at the pump. The electric motors and batteries add more than 400lbs of weight and a $10K price hike to the GS350, for just 37 extra horses, no increase in fuel economy, and no significant increase in performance. Not to even mention that the steering, brakes, transmission and handling are ruined in the process. That's a terrible deal, any way you slice it. C&D's harsh review was completely deserved. The car makes no sense. |
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Replying to: hpowders (Oct 08, 2006 7:50 pm) Disappoiting? Are you sure you read the article at all? It seems you basically took 2 negatives and spin it round and round to try and make it as if C&D wrote the LS460 is a disappointing product. Considering the ending summary basically says "with new levels of luxury and attention to detail and a more robust lineup, the LS seems poised to stay on top.". That is hardly a *disappointing* review. Leave it to the spin doctors to manufacture reviews!
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Replying to: maxhonda99 (Oct 10, 2006 3:50 am) Disappointing in the sense that a 0-60 mph time of 6.0 seconds is unacceptable for a sedan with a big V-8. Powerful braking and quick acceleration are important to me, and they should be a given for anyone spending in excess of 60 large.
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Replying to: merc1 (Oct 09, 2006 10:16 pm) No explanation is necessary. I understand. Of course, BMW has its own unique, and special, build-quality and performance attributes. It's been a while now since I first brought attention to the reality of Lexus placing BMW in their crosshairs. There has definately been a greater acceptance of this now on this board, but there is a need for clarity. You might as well get used to the fact that Lexus will continue to strive to compete with BMW, as well as Mercedes, of course. While Audi and others are in the arena, I do not believe that Lexus has directly targeted them as they have Mercedes and now more recently BMW. Lexus is certainly not BMW, and with regards to all my posts about this topic, I think this needs to be clarified. I have never said, nor am I saying that Lexus is equivalent to BMW in any way. Lexus has their own credits, and they are different than BMW's. While I maintain that Lexus is not equivalent to BMW, I do think they could close the gap, over time. And, Lexus will take some increased market share from those buyers that are not as brand loyal, and from those that do not fully appreciate the special nature of BMW vehicles. Additionally, Lexus will market itself to be more of a performance vehicle than it really is. We already see these types of commercials with racing Lexus vehicles and slogans like "you can't lose". There should be no doubt that people will be swayed. I am concerned about some of these commercials, as I find them on the border of misrepresentation. The slogan "you can't lose" is very clever, and almost misleading, IMO. None of this makes a Lexus as good as a BMW, IMO. It just means that Lexus can improve the performance of their vehicles enough to satisfy a segment of the market and increase their share. The future concern is that Lexus could decide to invest in greater performance, especially if they see themselves making serious inroads into BMW territory. Also, there is the risk, but unknown yet, that BMW will take their latest technology direction too far down another iDrive-type path, and frustrate too many purists with overly complicated technology. I never underestimate Lexus, and try not to overestimate them either. For BMW, Mercedes, and others, it would be foolish to ever turn their back on Lexus, however. It would also be foolish to let Lexus overly distract or derail them (BMW, Mercedes, etc.) from their own directions. Overall, I have very strong faith and confidence in BMW, and I was glad to read that Reithofer keeps a concerned eye on Lexus, as he should, but mostly has his eye on the future of BMW, where it truly belongs. Let's just hope his vision of BMW's future is 20/20. TagMan
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So far, I am loving the Audi. It rides a little stiffly, but not for a performance car. Also, the V10 is quieter than I expected. It lacks the rumble of the AMG cars. I posted photos of the Audi in Car Space.
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Replying to: scottphillip (Oct 10, 2006 9:38 am)
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Replying to: merc1 (Oct 09, 2006 10:19 pm)  (this is according to the mbusa.com website).
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Replying to: petrie3 (Oct 10, 2006 12:01 pm) |
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