Last post on Jan 28, 2013 at 6:55 PM
You are in the Sedans
What is this discussion about?
Audi A8, BMW 7 Series, Jaguar XJ-Series, Lexus LS 460, Mercedes-Benz S-Class, Volkswagen Phaeton, Maserati Quattroporte, Mercedes-Benz CL-Class, Sedan
Let's try to define this forum as being limited to luxury performance vehicles where the mainstream version in a typical configuration has an MSRP of at least $60k.
A luxury vehicle with a base price of $59k qualifies because it would typically be bought with some additional equipment, bringing the MSRP over $60k.
Vehicles like the E, 5, A6, M, or GS, even if available in certain versions over $60k, don't qualify because they are cars from companies that have higher end cars in their lineups.
#19604 of 24723 Seems Like A Reality Disconnect
Oct 08, 2006 (8:51 am)
Reviews of the S-Class have been overwhelmingly positive.
Reviews of the LS 460 that have concentrated on the car and not the company, have been "polite" to negative.
If anything, given the representative reviews I posted above, it seems that Lexus has fallen even further behind the great German automakers.
Car and Driver, for example, found the stopping power better for the LS 430 than the LS 460. Lexus apparently is going backward!
Why, the higher-ups at BMW, Audi and MB must be LOL big time at a company that puts out a HELM vehicle whose greatest attribute seems to be that it can park itself.
And this they keep "top-secret" until the last minute?
Yes. I do indeed see the future in the HELM realm and it belongs to Audi, BMW and Mercedes Benz.
I would be aggressively selling my Toyota stock at this time, not only because of what I have written here, but also because of the real, imminent threat of Hyundai.
Anyone lucky enough to be holding TM since January 2003 has made good money, but the winds, they are a-changin'.
#19608 of 24723 Finally a threat to BMW?
Oct 08, 2006 (9:36 am)
Brit CAR reported VAG chairman Piech wants to bring Porsche wunder-CEO Wiedenking (?) on board as CEO of VW, and make an alliance with Porsche. Such alliance is something MB dreamed in vain for years, and has given up. An VAG-Porsche alliance is much more probable for many reasons, one being the Porsche and Piech families are personally and corporately intertwined, Piech is the grandson of founder Ferdinand Porsche. Another, Porsche owns a huge chunk of VAG stock.
With Porsche engineering help, will Audi, already pretty respectable, finally surpass BMW as the sedan performance leader? I think that's a real possibility!
Report says alliance would jettison Lamborghini and Bugatti, because they're competitors of Porsche. Who would be interested in them, Honda? What'd VAG do with Veyron, after spending tons of money on the world's fastest car?
Oct 08, 2006 (9:47 am)
Iím really getting sick of the LS vs German-car comparisons and bickering. The LS is a different type of luxury car and I would categorize it as pure luxury vs performance luxury. Furthermore, and Iíve said this long ago, most contented Lexus buyers have no need or desire for the type of performance that German cars offer, quite the opposite. That pretty much makes it apples vs oranges IMO. But weíve been down this road a million times before.
By the way, Iím surprised no one has brought up the LS460 review in the October Car mag. It is very consistent with the majority performance-biased reviews, that is, that the LS strong points are quality and reliability, applauding the impeccable build process, and that it will appeal to American-luxury tastes. It slams it on driving qualities and styling. It is clear the reviewer prefers typical Euro qualities and gives thumbs up to the S550.
But of course, keeping hitting the tennis ball back and forth over the net. I suppose we all could use the exercise.
#19611 of 24723 Another Reality Check
Oct 08, 2006 (10:03 am)
Well, let's see...uh...it seems like Lexus Corporate put the tennis ball in play when they declared they were going after BMW-wasn't it first with the GS, the..uh...5-killer (lol)!
Is it just a coincidence that the rear of the new LS smacks of Bangle BMW influence?
The German vs Lexus debate will continue because Lexus put it into play.
#19612 of 24723 Re: Another Reality Check [hpowders]
Oct 08, 2006 (10:11 am)
What Lexus is targeting is BMW buyers (meaning younger buyers). What they have NOT said with the LS is that they would produce a car that outhandles a 7. So no surprise that it doesn't.
In fact the only handling-oriented marketing comment I recall from Lexus management was a claim along the lines that the new LS would be "the best handling LS ever." They never claimed it would be "the best handling Lexus" or the "best handling in its class".
#19613 of 24723 Re: Another Reality Check [syswei]
Oct 08, 2006 (10:14 am)
When you see the rear of the new LS, you will see the Bangle/BMW influence. They "say it" with the design.
They are targeting BMW.
So long as Lexus contributes in words or design that it is targeting BMW, the German vs Lexus debate is valid and will continue.