Last post on Jan 28, 2013 at 5:55 PM
You are in the Sedans
What is this discussion about?
Audi A8, BMW 7 Series, Jaguar XJ-Series, Lexus LS 460, Mercedes-Benz S-Class, Volkswagen Phaeton, Maserati Quattroporte, Mercedes-Benz CL-Class, Sedan
Let's try to define this forum as being limited to luxury performance vehicles where the mainstream version in a typical configuration has an MSRP of at least $60k.
A luxury vehicle with a base price of $59k qualifies because it would typically be bought with some additional equipment, bringing the MSRP over $60k.
Vehicles like the E, 5, A6, M, or GS, even if available in certain versions over $60k, don't qualify because they are cars from companies that have higher end cars in their lineups.
Oct 08, 2006 (6:21 am)
This is a very important period of growth for the LS, and for Lexus in particular. Think of it as when Lebron James went to the Cavs. Or when Tiger Woods played in the '97 Masters.
If you still want a $65k Lexus LS, you can get one, and have the best car in that price range.
And if you want more, you get more. I don't look at it as a price increase, but a coming of age. It puts pressure of everybody else. This vehicle is a quantum leap better than one of the best luxury cars ever built!
More HELM customers will put the LS on there test drive lists, and may not see a raw performer like the 750i, but will have the chance to see virtues that will compell them to buy a Lexus.
The package is compelling, if not enthralling. Loads more power, more room, more features, more options, and it's good-looking! It's more tasteful than the 750 and S550, after having seen them all in person. It walks the line very well. More attractive, without trying to hard to be attractive, or different. Mercedes wasn't as successful.
Those DESPERATE for a fly in the ointment will call for a engine with more displacment, and I'm sure Lexus will offer a 5.0 V8 for 2010 with more low-end in their mid-gen update.
I would like Lexus to raise prices, to sell less vehicles, and replace market dominance with more prestige and exclusivity. They may be at the point where they can charge more than the competition because the market will pay a premium for a Lexus. Imagine if they sold the endless versions of their vehicles like Benz does?
When the S-Class and LS have been compared previously, the reviews for the LS have been rather "estatic". I'm prepared for more "ecstacy"!
Regarding the GS, it sells with the M35/45, the critically acclaimed best-in-class, just fine. As I've said before, it's not my personal favorite, but it is not the dud you're trying to portray.
And the IS is doing bang-up business, and is in very short supply. They fixed the VDIM issue, and I'm hopeful a Manual is in development for it, and for a future 350HP Toyota Supra!
Sounds like you're Sleepless in Seattle, but Torrence, CA is awfully sunny these days!
The future's so bright, I gotta wear
#19604 of 24726 Seems Like A Reality Disconnect
Oct 08, 2006 (7:51 am)
Reviews of the S-Class have been overwhelmingly positive.
Reviews of the LS 460 that have concentrated on the car and not the company, have been "polite" to negative.
If anything, given the representative reviews I posted above, it seems that Lexus has fallen even further behind the great German automakers.
Car and Driver, for example, found the stopping power better for the LS 430 than the LS 460. Lexus apparently is going backward!
Why, the higher-ups at BMW, Audi and MB must be LOL big time at a company that puts out a HELM vehicle whose greatest attribute seems to be that it can park itself.
And this they keep "top-secret" until the last minute?
Yes. I do indeed see the future in the HELM realm and it belongs to Audi, BMW and Mercedes Benz.
I would be aggressively selling my Toyota stock at this time, not only because of what I have written here, but also because of the real, imminent threat of Hyundai.
Anyone lucky enough to be holding TM since January 2003 has made good money, but the winds, they are a-changin'.
#19608 of 24726 Finally a threat to BMW?
Oct 08, 2006 (8:36 am)
Brit CAR reported VAG chairman Piech wants to bring Porsche wunder-CEO Wiedenking (?) on board as CEO of VW, and make an alliance with Porsche. Such alliance is something MB dreamed in vain for years, and has given up. An VAG-Porsche alliance is much more probable for many reasons, one being the Porsche and Piech families are personally and corporately intertwined, Piech is the grandson of founder Ferdinand Porsche. Another, Porsche owns a huge chunk of VAG stock.
With Porsche engineering help, will Audi, already pretty respectable, finally surpass BMW as the sedan performance leader? I think that's a real possibility!
Report says alliance would jettison Lamborghini and Bugatti, because they're competitors of Porsche. Who would be interested in them, Honda? What'd VAG do with Veyron, after spending tons of money on the world's fastest car?
Oct 08, 2006 (8:47 am)
Iím really getting sick of the LS vs German-car comparisons and bickering. The LS is a different type of luxury car and I would categorize it as pure luxury vs performance luxury. Furthermore, and Iíve said this long ago, most contented Lexus buyers have no need or desire for the type of performance that German cars offer, quite the opposite. That pretty much makes it apples vs oranges IMO. But weíve been down this road a million times before.
By the way, Iím surprised no one has brought up the LS460 review in the October Car mag. It is very consistent with the majority performance-biased reviews, that is, that the LS strong points are quality and reliability, applauding the impeccable build process, and that it will appeal to American-luxury tastes. It slams it on driving qualities and styling. It is clear the reviewer prefers typical Euro qualities and gives thumbs up to the S550.
But of course, keeping hitting the tennis ball back and forth over the net. I suppose we all could use the exercise.
#19611 of 24726 Another Reality Check
Oct 08, 2006 (9:03 am)
Well, let's see...uh...it seems like Lexus Corporate put the tennis ball in play when they declared they were going after BMW-wasn't it first with the GS, the..uh...5-killer (lol)!
Is it just a coincidence that the rear of the new LS smacks of Bangle BMW influence?
The German vs Lexus debate will continue because Lexus put it into play.
#19612 of 24726 Re: Another Reality Check [hpowders]
Oct 08, 2006 (9:11 am)
What Lexus is targeting is BMW buyers (meaning younger buyers). What they have NOT said with the LS is that they would produce a car that outhandles a 7. So no surprise that it doesn't.
In fact the only handling-oriented marketing comment I recall from Lexus management was a claim along the lines that the new LS would be "the best handling LS ever." They never claimed it would be "the best handling Lexus" or the "best handling in its class".