Last post on Jan 28, 2013 at 5:55 PM
You are in the Sedans
What is this discussion about?
Audi A8, BMW 7 Series, Jaguar XJ-Series, Lexus LS 460, Mercedes-Benz S-Class, Volkswagen Phaeton, Maserati Quattroporte, Mercedes-Benz CL-Class, Sedan
Let's try to define this forum as being limited to luxury performance vehicles where the mainstream version in a typical configuration has an MSRP of at least $60k.
A luxury vehicle with a base price of $59k qualifies because it would typically be bought with some additional equipment, bringing the MSRP over $60k.
Vehicles like the E, 5, A6, M, or GS, even if available in certain versions over $60k, don't qualify because they are cars from companies that have higher end cars in their lineups.
#19598 of 24726 A Tale of Two Recent LS 460 Reviews
Oct 08, 2006 (4:23 am)
This from "izoom.com":
"As a contender in the big luxury sedan category, the LS 460 is uninspired and laden with pointless, whiz-bang gizmos that left us wondering if the folks at Lexus are out of touch."
"In terms of styling, the new LS is unlikely to attract new buyers and especially any converts from formidable prestige brands such as Mercedes-Benz or BMW."
"According to Lexus Vice President of Marketing Deborah Meyer, 'Our basic philosophy is to build vehicles our customers want.'
Well, apparently the Lexus customer has spoken and what it wants for 2007 is help with parallel parking."
"As far as most people are concerned, nothing screams "old man car" more than a big, overblown sedan with a parallel parking system. Our prediction is that the 2007 Lexus LS 460 will be huge in Florida."
This from "Car and Driver":
"60 mph arrives from rest in 6.0 seconds...more than a half-second slower than what Lexus claims, not to mention what the Mercedes S550 and BMW 750i achieve."
"Start pushing and the all-season tires howl persistently as it leans through turns."
"We measured a pitiful 209 feet in stopping distance from 70 mph, 30 feet longer than an LS 430."
I don't think Mercedes Benz has much to worry about.
#19599 of 24726 Re: A Tale of Two Recent LS 460 Reviews [hpowders]
Oct 08, 2006 (5:19 am)
I don't think Mercedes Benz has much to worry about.
Sleeping medicine prescriptions will no longer be required for BMW execs
#19600 of 24726 Re: Lexus LS Pricing [drfill]
Oct 08, 2006 (5:21 am)
One thing I have learned is a fully-loaded LS460L may surpass $90k!
You know Doc you are the only person I know who gets excited about price inflation.
If I read that BMW or Audi prices will be substantially higher I can assure you I would not use the icon. Instead I would use this icon
Lexus will have no choice but to apply their usual WalMart pricing when compared to Benzes or BMWs. Otherwise they may end up having many uninspiring autos that have a lot of pointless whizbang gizmos sitting on their lots collecting cobwebs.
Apparently all the prior euphoria about the LS in various forums is beginning to look like a joke. Coincidentally the same euphoria was witnessed with the lacklustre GS and the stickless VDIM IS non-sport sedan.
#19601 of 24726 Re: A Tale of Two Recent LS 460 Reviews [dewey]
Oct 08, 2006 (6:07 am)
Like the BMW execs were ever worried!
#19602 of 24726 Re: Lexus LS Pricing [dewey]
Oct 08, 2006 (6:11 am)
Yeah. I wouldn't be so gleeful at Lexus LS price inflation.
The great appeal of the LS was as an entry-level HELM at a great price.
Once that price approaches S-Class territory, more buyers will be considering the S-Class, as well they should.
The reviews of the S-Class have been ecstatic. Quite the contrary regarding the new LS.
I will be driving the LS460 next month. My expectations are not high.
Oct 08, 2006 (6:21 am)
This is a very important period of growth for the LS, and for Lexus in particular. Think of it as when Lebron James went to the Cavs. Or when Tiger Woods played in the '97 Masters.
If you still want a $65k Lexus LS, you can get one, and have the best car in that price range.
And if you want more, you get more. I don't look at it as a price increase, but a coming of age. It puts pressure of everybody else. This vehicle is a quantum leap better than one of the best luxury cars ever built!
More HELM customers will put the LS on there test drive lists, and may not see a raw performer like the 750i, but will have the chance to see virtues that will compell them to buy a Lexus.
The package is compelling, if not enthralling. Loads more power, more room, more features, more options, and it's good-looking! It's more tasteful than the 750 and S550, after having seen them all in person. It walks the line very well. More attractive, without trying to hard to be attractive, or different. Mercedes wasn't as successful.
Those DESPERATE for a fly in the ointment will call for a engine with more displacment, and I'm sure Lexus will offer a 5.0 V8 for 2010 with more low-end in their mid-gen update.
I would like Lexus to raise prices, to sell less vehicles, and replace market dominance with more prestige and exclusivity. They may be at the point where they can charge more than the competition because the market will pay a premium for a Lexus. Imagine if they sold the endless versions of their vehicles like Benz does?
When the S-Class and LS have been compared previously, the reviews for the LS have been rather "estatic". I'm prepared for more "ecstacy"!
Regarding the GS, it sells with the M35/45, the critically acclaimed best-in-class, just fine. As I've said before, it's not my personal favorite, but it is not the dud you're trying to portray.
And the IS is doing bang-up business, and is in very short supply. They fixed the VDIM issue, and I'm hopeful a Manual is in development for it, and for a future 350HP Toyota Supra!
Sounds like you're Sleepless in Seattle, but Torrence, CA is awfully sunny these days!
The future's so bright, I gotta wear
#19604 of 24726 Seems Like A Reality Disconnect
Oct 08, 2006 (7:51 am)
Reviews of the S-Class have been overwhelmingly positive.
Reviews of the LS 460 that have concentrated on the car and not the company, have been "polite" to negative.
If anything, given the representative reviews I posted above, it seems that Lexus has fallen even further behind the great German automakers.
Car and Driver, for example, found the stopping power better for the LS 430 than the LS 460. Lexus apparently is going backward!
Why, the higher-ups at BMW, Audi and MB must be LOL big time at a company that puts out a HELM vehicle whose greatest attribute seems to be that it can park itself.
And this they keep "top-secret" until the last minute?
Yes. I do indeed see the future in the HELM realm and it belongs to Audi, BMW and Mercedes Benz.
I would be aggressively selling my Toyota stock at this time, not only because of what I have written here, but also because of the real, imminent threat of Hyundai.
Anyone lucky enough to be holding TM since January 2003 has made good money, but the winds, they are a-changin'.