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Sedans High End Luxury Cars
24699 messages, Last post on Nov 30, 2009 at 6:41 PM
You are in the Sedans Forum. Your Hosts are pat & karens
Let's try to define this forum as being limited to luxury performance vehicles where the mainstream version in a typical configuration has an MSRP of at least $60k.
A luxury vehicle with a base price of $59k qualifies because it would typically be bought with some additional equipment, bringing the MSRP over $60k.
Vehicles like the E, 5, A6, M, or GS, even if available in certain versions over $60k, don't qualify because they are cars from companies that have higher end cars in their lineups.
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Replying to: tagman (Oct 06, 2006 10:23 pm) The lower sulphur content may do wonders for our environment but it will not neccessarily be good for a diesel engine. This article I linked relates to trucks but is also relevant for autos (HELM and non-HELM). The Europeans luxury marques and Honda/VW are not only developing complex emissions technologies but also developing complex technologies to avoid engine damage. This added complexity in diesel engines may make them more vulnerable to malfuncitions. Whether that is the case or not we will have to wait and see (in a few years we will see MB Blutec reliability stats): Trucking fleets around Australia are reporting a rash of fuel-related seal failures linked to the recent introduction of diesel fuel with a lower sulphur and aromatics content. The seals in question are fuel injection and throttle-shaft O-rings and gaskets made with a rubber compound. Some of these seals are reportedly failing after as little as 3 weeks exposure to the new low sulphur diesel fuel. Engines with rotary injector pumps use diesel for lubrication, as contrasted with in-line pumps which use crankcase oil. As a result, engines with rotary pumps are, at this time, the hardest hit. The problems are apparently an unexpected result caused by the fuels mandate which has taken effect. On 1 January 2000, Western Australia became the first state in Australia to achieve “Euro II” (Low Sulphur) standards in diesel fuel and to eliminate lead from petrol. link title
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Replying to: blkhemi (Oct 06, 2006 6:49 am) BTW, you do realize this is the wrong forum? unless the Accord and Camry all of a sudden became high end lux marques.
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Replying to: maxhonda99 (Oct 07, 2006 6:20 am)
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Replying to: pat (Oct 07, 2006 6:25 am) |
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Replying to: dewey (Oct 07, 2006 4:53 am) I am a bit suspicious about the article that you linked, as it was authored by the B100 product company that markets the solution to the "problem" that they are focusing on. But, if true, then there are clear measures that can be taken, both in the manufacturing methods of the engines, with regards to sealant properties and composition, and also with the fuel itself. The lower acidity of the newer fuel was noted in the article as a positive attribute, but it seems the major concern is its the lower lubricating properties. This is extrememly interesting, however, and the bottom line here is that it does indeed raise the concern level, as you were initially pointing out. Time will tell if the difficulties indicated in the article with regards to heavy duty diesel engines and the use of low sulphur fuel have any real relationship to the auto diesel engines that will be forthcoming. Gosh, I sure hope for the best, because if there are failures similar to the ones cited, then the trend towards diesels could essentially be undermined. This is worthy of more investigation and discovery, IMO, and if you find any more information about this as it relates to the CAR diesels and the low sulphur fuel, please post it. I, for one, would be most interested. At this point, however, I remain very optimistic and excited about the forthcoming diesel engine options that we will be seeing within just another model year or two. Thanks for the post! TagMan |
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Replying to: dewey (Oct 07, 2006 4:53 am) More follow up to your post, please. Complexity in terms of the technology involved to create the solution? . . . or, are you saying that the engine itself is becoming more "complicated" somehow. The reason I am asking is that complex technology could be utilized to create what is ultimately a "simple" or "non-complicated" solution. Generally, diesel engines are not all that complicated. So, are you referring to some major complex engine component that is now an inherent part of the engine? I mean a new generation particulate filter doesn't strike me as complex even if the technology to develop it is. A new generation of a catalytic exhaust component doesn't strike me as complicated, even it its unique individual manufacturing process is complicated. So, what specifically are you referring to that is so complex or complicated that it might be subject to increased failure? TagMan
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Replying to: drfill (Oct 06, 2006 8:18 pm) Price out an LS460L (must be long wheelbase to properly comp) with the closest and most similar equipment package you can come up with to an S550. Let me see the true difference in price, but similarly equipped. I'll be most interested in your calculations. Thanks, TagMan
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As you know Tag, I'm pro diesel. It's my slogan for this years mid-term Senate elections   . But seriously, let's disect this conversation a bit. Dewey, yes with new technology comes new problems. That can be said for just about everything. But, when it comes to diesel technology, few(if any) continents do it better than Europe. Low-sulphur equipped diesels have been there for years, with little to no more problems over the old smokin' Joe diesels of only 2 decades ago. Some of things that were mentioned in that JD study were a bit misleading to say the least. For one, the whole thing about the maintenance is nothing more than the owners are bit beturbed because they can no longer work on the trucks themselves , which now requires special tools and software to ascertain problems, diagnose, and fix. On to the mainstream passenger cars, it now has been proven that the low-sulphur diesel are more durable and have more longevity than a comparable traditional diesel. This can be tossed up due to a dramatically lower NOX level and much better management of fuel, such as those piezo injectors that burn 98.89% of ALL fuel that enters the cylinder wall, compared to a 80% at best for an older diesel. And now you have the ultra-quiet diesels that are so deceiving that you'd swear that your in a gas-powered car, as witnessed by the ultra-quiet MB 3.2CDI. This all is not yo say that you didn't bring valid points, in which you did, but I don't think that the Europeans are going to drop the ball on diesel and their incredible reliablility anytime soon. For me, gas-hybrid technology is just a band-aid to the energy problem that is happening, especially since it has been proven time and time again that they get nowhere near there estimated EPA in most circumstances. And for this, I will definetely be on the diesel side of the fence.....
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Replying to: blkhemi (Oct 07, 2006 8:44 am) You know my position as well. Gas/electric hybric is a viable alternative that is OK as a temporary technology. Unless it provides some unusual breakthrough, I don't expect it to last for the long haul. I'm OK with it in the meantime, however. Diesels are a far better answer, without a doubt. And diesel/electric could be something to consider. Hydrogen will likely worm its way into our infrastructure, and my crystal ball says it will become the big winner when the dust finally settles. But, for the immediate future, I am so anxious to get my hands on a new generation diesel vehicle. I expect Mercedes to release the BlueTec in many of their models within the next few years. Even Japan is coming aboard. Toyota will be the lone ranger with their gas hybrids, and I'll bet they finally make the switch, too. The market itself will force them to, IMO. Their one big advantage could be diesel/electric hybrids due to their leading experience with the hybrids. TagMan |
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