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High End Luxury Cars

24723 messages,  Last post on Jan 28, 2013 at 6:55 PM

You are in the Sedans Forum.

What is this discussion about? Audi A8, BMW 7 Series, Jaguar XJ-Series, Lexus LS 460, Mercedes-Benz S-Class, Volkswagen Phaeton, Maserati Quattroporte, Mercedes-Benz CL-Class, Sedan



Let's try to define this forum as being limited to luxury performance vehicles where the mainstream version in a typical configuration has an MSRP of at least $60k.

A luxury vehicle with a base price of $59k qualifies because it would typically be bought with some additional equipment, bringing the MSRP over $60k.

Vehicles like the E, 5, A6, M, or GS, even if available in certain versions over $60k, don't qualify because they are cars from companies that have higher end cars in their lineups.

Messages Page 1959 of 2473

#19577 of 24723 Lexus LS Pricing by drfill

Oct 06, 2006 (9:18 pm)

My opinion is I'm pleased with the LS460L pricing, and the SWB should be near $65k, so it does indeed represent incredible value, especially against cars like 750i.
  
    The LS460L is aggressively priced, and is right on top of the 750iL. This may add feul to Tag's fire on that note.
  
    I don't think Lexus is after BMW customers any more or less than they are after Mercedes customers. I believe Lexus' priority is to replace Mercedes as the preeminent luxury marque in the US.
  
    With that in mind, I would price the 600 right on top of the S550, and see what shakes out.
  
    This would increase market awareness and brand image, and maybe Lexus will sell more than 2-3k hybrids. It's as good a time as any to find out if this luxury hybrid class has legs or not.
  
    If Lexus can sell more than 3k 600h a year, than the model is a success, IMHO.
  
    Considering I predicted a 10/15 launch date, and a 10/2 price release date, I'd say I was accurate enough.
  
    The LS460L is VERY well-equipped, and the 750i is in for a long 2007. Std NAV makes the spread $10k. A novel approach, since it is extremely rare for NAV to be standard on any car, HELM or not.
  
    Considering the low price on the SWB, 30k sales is a low-ball estimate. 40 is more accurate, and 45-50k is not out of the question in '07!
   
    Regarding this best-dressed list, move the LS up to #2, behind the Jag!
  
    Germany makes many cars better looking than these! But my favorite will always be the 1995 BMW 740/750iL. And the current SL is pretty sweet!
 
    But Lexus is learning how to style-and-profile!
 
    There goes the neighborhood!
  
    DrFill

#19578 of 24723 Re: More diesel news [dewey] by tagman

Oct 06, 2006 (11:23 pm)

Replying to: dewey (Oct 06, 2006 8:39 pm)
J.D. Power and Associates Reports:
Problems with Heavy-Duty Truck Engines Increase as More Manufacturers Employ New Emission Standards
 
Dewey, there is one significante difference . . . up until several days ago, October 1st, the sulphur in diesel fuel was a major component, but is now reduced to somewhere around 5%.
 
Previous generations of emissions control had to work around all that sulphur, which is no longer the case.
 
New ballgame. Say hello to BlueTec and the future of diesels.
 
TagMan

#19579 of 24723 Re: More diesel news [tagman] by dewey

Oct 07, 2006 (5:53 am)

Replying to: tagman (Oct 06, 2006 11:23 pm)
Dewey, there is one significante difference . . . up until several days ago, October 1st, the sulphur in diesel fuel was a major component, but is now reduced to somewhere around 5%.
 
The lower sulphur content may do wonders for our environment but it will not neccessarily be good for a diesel engine. This article I linked relates to trucks but is also relevant for autos (HELM and non-HELM). The Europeans luxury marques and Honda/VW are not only developing complex emissions technologies but also developing complex technologies to avoid engine damage. This added complexity in diesel engines may make them more vulnerable to malfuncitions. Whether that is the case or not we will have to wait and see (in a few years we will see MB Blutec reliability stats):
 
Trucking fleets around Australia are reporting a rash of fuel-related seal failures linked to the recent introduction of diesel fuel with a lower sulphur and aromatics content. The seals in question are fuel injection and throttle-shaft O-rings and gaskets made with a rubber compound. Some of these seals are reportedly failing after as little as 3 weeks exposure to the new low sulphur diesel fuel. Engines with rotary injector pumps use diesel for lubrication, as contrasted with in-line pumps which use crankcase oil. As a result, engines with rotary pumps are, at this time, the hardest hit.
The problems are apparently an unexpected result caused by the fuels mandate which has taken effect. On 1 January 2000, Western Australia became the first state in Australia to achieve “Euro II” (Low Sulphur) standards in diesel fuel and to eliminate lead from petrol.
 
link title

#19580 of 24723 Re: Latest U.S. Auto Sales Data [blkhemi] by maxhonda99

Oct 07, 2006 (7:20 am)

Replying to: blkhemi (Oct 06, 2006 7:49 am)
Nice. Joke, 268bhp and about 3200lbs. You call that "horrid power to weight ratio"?? So tell me oh wise one, what is the 0-60 of the Accord V6 coupe with manual?? I bet you it's only a few tenth's of a second quicker than the Camry SE V6, which is 6.1.
 
BTW, you do realize this is the wrong forum? unless the Accord and Camry all of a sudden became high end lux marques.

#19581 of 24723 Re: Latest U.S. Auto Sales Data [maxhonda99] by pat

Oct 07, 2006 (7:25 am)

Replying to: maxhonda99 (Oct 07, 2006 7:20 am)
As you say, it is indeed the wrong discussion, so let's drop it, okay?

#19582 of 24723 Re: Latest U.S. Auto Sales Data [pat] by maxhonda99

Oct 07, 2006 (7:44 am)

Replying to: pat (Oct 07, 2006 7:25 am)
dropped.

#19583 of 24723 Re: More diesel news [dewey] by tagman

Oct 07, 2006 (8:32 am)

Replying to: dewey (Oct 07, 2006 5:53 am)
OK, now I see what you are saying.
 
I am a bit suspicious about the article that you linked, as it was authored by the B100 product company that markets the solution to the "problem" that they are focusing on.
 
But, if true, then there are clear measures that can be taken, both in the manufacturing methods of the engines, with regards to sealant properties and composition, and also with the fuel itself.
 
The lower acidity of the newer fuel was noted in the article as a positive attribute, but it seems the major concern is its the lower lubricating properties.
 
This is extrememly interesting, however, and the bottom line here is that it does indeed raise the concern level, as you were initially pointing out. Time will tell if the difficulties indicated in the article with regards to heavy duty diesel engines and the use of low sulphur fuel have any real relationship to the auto diesel engines that will be forthcoming.
 
Gosh, I sure hope for the best, because if there are failures similar to the ones cited, then the trend towards diesels could essentially be undermined.
 
This is worthy of more investigation and discovery, IMO, and if you find any more information about this as it relates to the CAR diesels and the low sulphur fuel, please post it. I, for one, would be most interested.
 
At this point, however, I remain very optimistic and excited about the forthcoming diesel engine options that we will be seeing within just another model year or two.
 
Thanks for the post!
 
TagMan

#19584 of 24723 Re: More diesel news [dewey] by tagman

Oct 07, 2006 (8:50 am)

Replying to: dewey (Oct 07, 2006 5:53 am)
The Europeans luxury marques and Honda/VW are not only developing complex emissions technologies but also developing complex technologies to avoid engine damage. This added complexity in diesel engines may make them more vulnerable to malfuncitions.
 
More follow up to your post, please.
 
Complexity in terms of the technology involved to create the solution? . . . or, are you saying that the engine itself is becoming more "complicated" somehow.
 
The reason I am asking is that complex technology could be utilized to create what is ultimately a "simple" or "non-complicated" solution.
 
Generally, diesel engines are not all that complicated. So, are you referring to some major complex engine component that is now an inherent part of the engine?
 
I mean a new generation particulate filter doesn't strike me as complex even if the technology to develop it is. A new generation of a catalytic exhaust component doesn't strike me as complicated, even it its unique individual manufacturing process is complicated.
 
So, what specifically are you referring to that is so complex or complicated that it might be subject to increased failure?
 
TagMan

#19586 of 24723 Re: Lexus LS Pricing [drfill] by tagman

Oct 07, 2006 (9:34 am)

Replying to: drfill (Oct 06, 2006 9:18 pm)
OK, Doc . . . now that the LS prices are in . . . let me ask you this . . .
 
Price out an LS460L (must be long wheelbase to properly comp) with the closest and most similar equipment package you can come up with to an S550.
 
Let me see the true difference in price, but similarly equipped.
 
I'll be most interested in your calculations.
 
Thanks,
 
TagMan

Messages Page 1959 of 2473

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