Last post on Jan 28, 2013 at 5:55 PM
You are in the Sedans
What is this discussion about?
Audi A8, BMW 7 Series, Jaguar XJ-Series, Lexus LS 460, Mercedes-Benz S-Class, Volkswagen Phaeton, Maserati Quattroporte, Mercedes-Benz CL-Class, Sedan
Let's try to define this forum as being limited to luxury performance vehicles where the mainstream version in a typical configuration has an MSRP of at least $60k.
A luxury vehicle with a base price of $59k qualifies because it would typically be bought with some additional equipment, bringing the MSRP over $60k.
Vehicles like the E, 5, A6, M, or GS, even if available in certain versions over $60k, don't qualify because they are cars from companies that have higher end cars in their lineups.
#19457 of 24726 Latest U.S. Auto Sales Data
Oct 03, 2006 (1:29 pm)
This is what I call The Good, The Bad, & The Ugly.
According to Forbes:
U.S. automakers released sluggish September sales results Tuesday, while Toyota continued to gain market share against its U.S. competitors after posting another month of solid sales.
Of the three major auto manufacturers, Ford Motor (nyse: F - news - people ) was the only one to post sales growth in September. On Tuesday, its overall September U.S. sales were up 5%, year-over-year, while car sales were up 26% on strong demand for the Ford Fusion, Mercury Milan, Lincoln MKZ and Mustang models. Truck sales were down 5% despite higher sales of Ford's F-Series pickups, Explorer and Expedition sport utility vehicles, reversing recent sales trends.
Ford stock rose about 1.6% on the news.
DaimlerChrysler (nyse: DCX - news - people ) and General Motors (nyse: GM - news - people ), on the other hand, posted declining year-over-year sales growth.
DaimlerChrysler reported a 2% year-over-year decline in September U.S. auto sales to 188,761 units. The Chrysler Group — the U.S. unit of the German automaker that includes the Chrysler, Jeep and Dodge brands—posted a decrease of 4% to 168,888 vehicles. General Motors, the world's largest automaker, said its total U.S. September sales declined 6.8% from the same month last year. The company also revised down its fourth-quarter North American production forecast by 20,000 units to 1.11 million vehicles. Analysts had expected GM, which is in talks with Nissan (nasdaq: NSANY - news - people ) and Renault about forming a global alliance, to announce flat sales.
Meanwhile, Toyota Motor (nyse: TM - news - people )—once again—showed the biggest surge in monthly sales, which were up 25% to 222,950 units from last year.
Nissan Motors posted a 5.6% year-over-year decline to 88,340 vehicles, while Honda (nyse: HMC - news - people )'s sales fell 4.1% to 116,226.
Overall, the Street had estimated an adjusted annual sales rate for September of about 16.6 million to 16.8 million vehicles, up from 16.5 million in September 2005.
BTW, Mercedes sales were up 13%!!
Considering the Toyota onslaught . . . gosh . . . do THAT many people read Consumer Reports?
#19458 of 24726 Re: Latest U.S. Auto Sales Data [tagman]
Oct 03, 2006 (2:34 pm)
"Considering the Toyota onslaught....gosh.....do THAT many people read Consumer Reports?"
Considering that a group of folks that post here thinks that everything that CR touches is gold, well the new MB S-Class must be the most precious metal yet to be discovered, considering the super strong demand it still holds, even with the LS due to be released any minute now.
The same goes for the GL class also, which September has been it's greatest month with over 4k of these babies being moved, huge news for any $50k vehicle.
On the flipside, the General has definetely got to get in gear in order to get back on the right side of the tracks. One, don't try to sell people an Impala and tell them that it's leaps and bounds ahead of a Camry, Accord, or even Sonata, when it's platform dates back to the '89 Pontiac GP.
Secondly, DON'T REST ON THE LAURELS OF PICK-UPS AND SUVS!!! At one point or another, an "it" has to be in order. And not just a Vette, but a car that shocks not only the US, but the world, as witnessed by the still-in-style Chrysler LX-platformed cars.
And lastly, don't just do nice concepts. Come through with the real thing. Some posters on this board ask why we G-Car fans are so fascinated by them. This is one reason why as the Germans make concepts, 2 years later you will be driving them.
#19459 of 24726 Re: Latest U.S. Auto Sales Data [tagman]
Oct 03, 2006 (2:36 pm)
Toyota without a doubt is the best managed auto company in the world today.
Great company to write a business case study about. But still I cant seem to find one Toyota/Lexus that they produce in which I would want to buy right now.
#19460 of 24726 Re: Latest U.S. Auto Sales Data [dewey]
Oct 03, 2006 (3:59 pm)
"But still I can't seem to find one Toyota/Lexus that they produce in which I would want to buy right now."
I'm the same way with this one Dewey. True, the Camry has finally been given some curves. The LS has now gotten serious about taking on Europe. The RX is still a class-competitor, despite an onslaught of new comp. And the IS has given a lot of folks something to think about.
But, is it enough? With the S. Koreans matching Toyota tit-for-tat in quality and owner satisfaction. With many automakers matching them in reliability now(especially the domestics). And now with the competition now exceeding them in product development, despite their leadership in hybrid technology. With all of this, there is still work left to do. There is nothing that screams "this is "the" car".
But before the selected folks fly off of the handle, this is not intended to start another Edmunds warzone in the battle between "them and us". Just a matter of facts....
#19461 of 24726 Re: Latest U.S. Auto Sales Data [blkhemi]
Oct 03, 2006 (4:19 pm)
There is nothing that screams "this is "the" car".
I completely understand and tend to agree, from a personal standpoint.
But . . . WOW . . . there sure must be a LOT of folks who seem to think a Toyota is "THE" car.
One reason, IMO, is that Toyotas are purchased more for their reliable utilitarian nature, and many of us on this forum purchase cars with a bunch more passion for design, dynamics, and performance.
Additionally, run the demographics of the American consumers, and it starts to make sense. There is a reasonable limit to the disposable income typically available for cars. Lots of people need (or just plain want) dependable reliable transportation. That simply translates into Toyota for a LOT of people.
#19462 of 24726 Re: Latest U.S. Auto Sales Data [tagman]
Oct 03, 2006 (8:02 pm)
> .. One reason, IMO, is that Toyotas are purchased more
> for their reliable utilitarian nature ...
Many of them, but Toyota's Prius, for one, has achieved utter hipness status in the Bay Area. There's a wait for the things. And Toyota's do command a certain permium over directly comparable cars, given their reputation for being build solidly etc. I wouldn't want one, but I think the brand image is actually excellent, as is Lexus'.
I think attacking any of these cars on associated brands' "perception" is a losing exercise.
I do make enough to basically get any car I want, and honestly right now I don't see anything that truly appeals to me in the market. My wife's an MB brand freak, why I don't know, her ML was a huge and disastrous fiasco, and of course she went and got another one. The irrationality of it all.
The only cars that ultimately warrant irrational passion are true sportscars, and especially classics. Sedans? Luxurious and extremely refined as they are, I don't think any sedan really represents a very passionate car choice, but that is just me.
All the cars discussed in this topic are
- extremely comfortable and refined
- superb expressions of sedan design
but on the other hand they also are not
- a true driving enthusiast's wet dream
As to which one is "better"... the only thing that counts is "better for someone with a specific taste and specific priorities". Rational absolutes will miss the mark there...
#19463 of 24726 Deal or No Deal?
Oct 04, 2006 (4:07 am)
I have been shopping online for a 2007 S550. This car has about 9,500 miles, and the owner has piled up the mileage in 1 month. Now, the car came with Active Body Control, premium package II, panorama sunroof, some other small added options, and 20'' chrome wheels.
Now, I tried to look at the bluebook value for the car and I couldn't find any.
Does anyone feel this is a good deal? Any comment will be greatly appreciated.
#19464 of 24726 Re: Latest U.S. Auto Sales Data [pablo_l]
Oct 04, 2006 (7:01 am)
I don't think any sedan really represents a very passionate car choice, but that is just me.
If you cant feel passion driving a Audi RS4 sedan or a BMW M5 then I can guarantee you that you will find little passion in a sports car.
My wife's an MB brand freak, why I don't know
Maybe you should find out why before calling your wife a brand freak. Apparently everyone who drives a luxury car is not a brand freak.
her ML was a huge and disastrous fiasco, and of course she went and got another one.
If I had an such a disaster I would not buy one myself. Fortunately I've owned German luxury/performance cars for decades without such disasters.
As I said before there is not a single Toyota/Lexus out there that I find compelling in terms of wanting one. The only reason I would buy a Toyota/Lexus is if I had your wife's MB ML experiences.
Apparently there are many car buyers who have had sour grape experiences with their cars and as a result are using CR magazines as a car buying bible. As Tagman had pointed out the majority of Americans appear to be strongly swayed by CR stats.
#19465 of 24726 Re: Deal or No Deal? [mickyl]
Oct 04, 2006 (7:19 am)
Does anyone feel this is a good deal? Any comment will be greatly appreciated
A deal is not a deal unless you disclose to us the price?
#19466 of 24726 Re: Latest U.S. Auto Sales Data [dewey]
Oct 04, 2006 (7:23 am)
"Not a single Toyota/Lexus out there that I find compelling."
I have to agree with Dewey.
I will probably cancel my "Taste of Lexus" invite for November based on my disappointing previous experience with Lexus test drives and the rather mixed reviews of the LS460 and GS450h that I have seen.
May sound crazy, but I'd take the Accord EX V-6 over either of them (so long as I can still keep my 545) and somehow try to work through the loss of not having the car park itself.