Last post on Jan 28, 2013 at 6:55 PM
You are in the Sedans
What is this discussion about?
Audi A8, BMW 7 Series, Jaguar XJ-Series, Lexus LS 460, Mercedes-Benz S-Class, Volkswagen Phaeton, Maserati Quattroporte, Mercedes-Benz CL-Class, Sedan
Let's try to define this forum as being limited to luxury performance vehicles where the mainstream version in a typical configuration has an MSRP of at least $60k.
A luxury vehicle with a base price of $59k qualifies because it would typically be bought with some additional equipment, bringing the MSRP over $60k.
Vehicles like the E, 5, A6, M, or GS, even if available in certain versions over $60k, don't qualify because they are cars from companies that have higher end cars in their lineups.
Sep 22, 2006 (8:41 pm)
Tag, even if Mercedes did price the S450 to compete against the LS460L head on, the SWB LS460 will still be cheaper, and that is all some will see here. I personally don't want to see Mercedes even try to position the S450 as a value compared to any LS model, only as a slightly higher priced alternative vs a much higher priced alternative. The S450 isn't going to come in much under 76-77K IMO and that will still give Lexus some price advantage, but not as much as they've had in past if all the price speculation on the LS board is to be believed.
I'm sure both companies are waiting to see what the other does, but Lexus has to play their hand first since the S-Class went on sale months ago and MB is in no hurry to bring over the S450 and the LS460 goes on sell in less than a month.
I can see the S450 arriving next spring/summer as a 2008 model along with a S320 Bluetec or CDI.
#19129 of 24723 Re: LS/S450 [merc1]
Sep 22, 2006 (9:06 pm)
I personally don't want to see Mercedes even try to position the S450 as a value compared to any LS model, only as a slightly higher priced alternative vs a much higher priced alternative.
I don't want to get into a heavy "value" discussion, but please be aware that "value", at least as I am using the word, does not mean "cheaper" or "cut-rate".
I use the word very specifically to mean that the product is perceived to be very much worth the price tag attached, almost to the point of getting more than one's money's worth, particularly in comparison to other products that warrant comparison.
An S450 priced moderately higher than an LS460L and significantly lower than an S550 would indeed be a "value".
An S-BlueTec will offer additional logical and sensible S-Class alternatives to the LS as well.
I, for one, still see the S-Class as the true benchmark, and I also believe that those in the buying public that have not pre-disposed themselves to a "Lexus no matter what", will realize the merits of the S-Class. It is a sensational vehicle, and an S450 will be a terrific contender to the LS460, and will be a preferable car to many of those that look at both with an open mind.
I have tremendous confidence in the S-Class as it compares to the LS460, and the addition of the S450 brings it closer to those whose financial limits might not allow for the S550.
The new LS460 is a terrific vehicle, I am clear about that, and it deserves serious respect, but the Mercedes Benz S-Class quite simply still has the blue ribbon, IMO.
#19130 of 24723 Ford of Europe blatantly rips off Mercedes
Sep 23, 2006 (7:04 am)
Wow, talk about a shameless copy. The interior design of the new Mondeo is an almost exact replica of a Benz ML or GL.
#19131 of 24723 Re: LS/S450 [tagman]
Sep 23, 2006 (9:08 am)
Well you know Tag, I can't argue with any of that!
I understand your definition of value and I agree, but cheaper is all that some will see which was my point about the SWB LS460. And of course for the pending LS460 sales rhetoric.
#19132 of 24723 Re: Just a tidbit to wet Merc's brochure-eating appetite [merc1]
Sep 23, 2006 (9:35 am)
Gawd I hope Mercedes doesn't build this thing. I think the press has this confused with a future Maybach or a CL Cabriolet, but a S550 Cabriolet, NEVER!!!!
Hmm... why? I think an S cab would be s-o-o cool.
#19133 of 24723 Re: Just a tidbit to wet Merc's brochure-eating appetite [designman]
Sep 23, 2006 (9:42 am)
I know you don't think that. You, dewey and tag are just trying to see how much S Cabrio taunting I can take...lol!
#19134 of 24723 Re: Panamera caught testing [dewey]
Sep 23, 2006 (9:42 am)
This is nothing more than the good ole fashioned Cayenne approach: Sell a Porshe to the masses with a insignificant VW powerplant.
Actually, I like the idea. For one thing it tells us that Panamera will be attainable, and there will be enough to choose from between the low and high end.
This is a dead ringer for the MB CLS. Porsche definitely used MB styling cues with this car. Not very creative or innovative IMO.
I don't expect the car to be drop-dead gorgeous, rather, it just needs that come-hither minimal, functional Porsche appeal. As far as the CLS thing, it was MB who ripped off the headlamp design. This car is not going to resemble the CLS.
#19135 of 24723 Re: Just a tidbit to wet Merc's brochure-eating appetite [merc1]
Sep 23, 2006 (9:46 am)
I'm serious. I like the old Lincoln convertible and even though the Eldorados and Deville cabs were two door, they had that Texas-big panache to them... pink Cadillac sass 'n swagger 'n stuff. Yep, I like that.
#19136 of 24723 Re: Just a tidbit to wet Merc's brochure-eating appetite [designman]
Sep 23, 2006 (9:48 am)
Well now that you mention those names I know I'm definitely against the idea of such a car from Mercedes-Benz!!!
#19137 of 24723 Re: Just a tidbit to wet Merc's brochure-eating appetite [merc1]
Sep 23, 2006 (9:54 am)
Aww shucks Merc, stop being a fuddy duddy. Mercedes is probably the one brand that carries the torch of swagger that the old Caddies had in their day. Bring on that drop-top S!!