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High End Luxury Cars

24723 messages,  Last post on Jan 28, 2013 at 6:55 PM

You are in the Sedans Forum.

What is this discussion about? Audi A8, BMW 7 Series, Jaguar XJ-Series, Lexus LS 460, Mercedes-Benz S-Class, Volkswagen Phaeton, Maserati Quattroporte, Mercedes-Benz CL-Class, Sedan



Let's try to define this forum as being limited to luxury performance vehicles where the mainstream version in a typical configuration has an MSRP of at least $60k.

A luxury vehicle with a base price of $59k qualifies because it would typically be bought with some additional equipment, bringing the MSRP over $60k.

Vehicles like the E, 5, A6, M, or GS, even if available in certain versions over $60k, don't qualify because they are cars from companies that have higher end cars in their lineups.

Messages Page 1865 of 2473

#18633 of 24723 Electronics by dewey

Sep 03, 2006 (5:10 pm)

HORSEPOWER is nice, but processing power is better. That seems to be the motto of the modern car, which is becoming as much an electronic system as a mechanical one.
 
 In some cars, such as the Mercedes-Benz S-Class or the BMW 7-Series, electronics already account for some $10,000-20,000 of the price. The most rapid growth is in the area of information and entertainment systems, sales of which will increase by 10% a year over the next decade, according to Roland Berger, a consultancy.
 
Jürgen Hubbert, a former branding boss at Mercedes, says electronics accounted for more of the firm's warranty claims than anything else for many years.
 
Roland Berger's research found that Japanese firms—which are also keen on electronics, but value simplicity too—have done a better job of pleasing customers. Carmakers should take heed. Electronics can make cars more fun. But when drivers leave their desks and slip behind the wheel, they expect to be done with technical support for the day.
 
SOURCE: THE ECONOMIST, AUG. 24TH, 2006
 
1) Ten to twenty thousand dollars of electronics in a S Class or 7 Series? Yikes, just imagine the potential repair costs for someone who owns such a car beyond warranty?
 
Buyers in the resale market are far more frugal than new car buyers and how will these frugal buyers respond when they are confronted will four digit electronic repair costs?
 
As I had predicted many months ago electronics in the 21st century will play the same role as corrosion did in the 1970s in terms of increasing the numbers of cars laying around in a scrap heap. Disposal will definitely become a tempting alternative when confronted with outrageous electronic repair bills.
 
2) The strength of luxury German car makers is in mechanical engineering and their weakness is in electronics. It is likely that Japanese luxury car makers will be in a far better position than Germans in terms of taking advantage of the growing importance of electronics in the automotive industry.
 
In my case mechanics means everything in terms of buying a car. Unfortunately that may not be the case for the younger Generation of Xers and Yers.

#18634 of 24723 Re: MB/DCX platform sharing!?!? [nvbanker] by hpowders

Sep 03, 2006 (5:57 pm)

Replying to: nvbanker (Sep 03, 2006 4:37 pm)
 
I don't know. Ardent LS admirers here have expressed their distaste for Bangle's designs.
 
Not so sure they and other LS lovers will like Lexus' decision to go in that direction.
 
From what I saw of the new LS on MotorWeek, looks pretty easy to like.
 
Once that car starts parking itself, they will forget about the Bangle influence.

#18635 of 24723 Re: MB/DCX platform sharing!?!? [houdini1] by blkhemi

Sep 03, 2006 (6:30 pm)

Replying to: houdini1 (Sep 03, 2006 7:51 am)
"Good point. I am sure the same would apply to Audi/Volkswagen and Mercedes/Chrysler owners."
 
Nice try, but you know more than I that a potential A3 owner knows that the car is based off of the Rabbit. It's even in the sells pitch at Audi. Audi target's this car for 25-35 year old up and comers. These are the same set of people that cross-shop the R32 and GTI's.
 
Now what other platforms were you blabbering about as Audi and VW doesn't share another, no, not even the Q7?

#18636 of 24723 Re: Edmunds True Cost To Own [houdini1] by blkhemi

Sep 03, 2006 (6:40 pm)

Replying to: houdini1 (Sep 03, 2006 11:21 am)
Myself along with a slew of others would love to know when and where does a LS430 compares to the ultimate luxury S600?
 
True Cost TO Own is what it is. A 278hp V8 car will burn almost half the gas than that of a 500hp+ V12 Benz. The price is double of that of a LS430.
 
But what does True Cost not tell you? That high-to-maintain- '07 S600 will retain 91% of it's value over a five year period, compared to a lowly 69% for the LS.
 
Poor investment? Only to the person that thinks that if they put up a loud enough shout that they'll convert someone to believe that this particular car is the ultimate save all. Only to the person that thinks that a car with such prestige as the S600 has is just a mere investment. ALL CARS ARE INVESTMENTS.

#18637 of 24723 Re: Edmunds True Cost To Own [blkhemi] by houdini1

Sep 03, 2006 (7:56 pm)

Replying to: blkhemi (Sep 03, 2006 6:40 pm)
Hmmm...sorry, but you had better check your math on retained values. Edmunds does not have the 2007 LS listed but you can compare the 2006 LS VS. the 2006 S 600.
 
According to Edmunds the 06 LS cost $61,918. and at the end of 5 years it will be worth $28,295. A 46% retained value.
 
Also according to Edmunds the 06 S 600 cost $148,170. and at the end of 5 years it will be worth $54,257. A 37% retained value.
 
Where did you get the 91% figure? A Mercedes salesman?

#18638 of 24723 Re: Edmunds True Cost To Own [houdini1] by dewey

Sep 03, 2006 (9:34 pm)

Replying to: houdini1 (Sep 03, 2006 7:56 pm)
Also according to Edmunds the 06 S 600 cost $148,170. and at the end of 5 years it will be worth $54,257. A 37% retained value.
 
What a lot of pie in the sky bunk. So Edmunds is an authority in telling you with 20/20 vision what the retained value of a car will be in 5 years? I dont think so! In fact no person or organization can make such a prediction (except Nostradamus but he died several centuries ago)
 
Overall Benzes have strong resale values according to businesses like ALG/Bluebook that just happen to be in the business of estimating retained values and are renowned to be the most credible sources in North America for retained values.
 
And let us not forget the car company that achieves highest retained values year after year (the name of the company is not Lexus but BMW). And no I did not receive this information from my BMW salesman
 

#18639 of 24723 Re: MB/DCX platform sharing!?!? [nvbanker] by tagman

Sep 04, 2006 (12:20 am)

Replying to: nvbanker (Sep 03, 2006 4:37 pm)
"but more than a few curious onlookers initially mistook the new Lexus for a BMW.""
  
Isn't that the objective?
 
Thank you nvbanker. Yes, it is. Simply more evidence that Lexus will impact BMW, and more importantly, consider that it is deliberate.
 
TagMan

#18640 of 24723 Re: MB/DCX platform sharing!?!? [tagman] by dewey

Sep 04, 2006 (5:04 am)

Replying to: tagman (Sep 04, 2006 12:20 am)
Thank you nvbanker. Yes, it is. Simply more evidence that Lexus will impact BMW, and more importantly, consider that it is deliberate.
 
Tagman,
 
in what way will it impact BMW? Positively or negatively?
Many reviewers writing about the LS express disappointment about the softer ride of an LS compared to a 7 series.
 
The LS will have as much impact on 7 series sales as it had in the past (in otherwords NIL). Or even a better example a LS will impact 7 series sales as much as Lexus GS sales impacted BMW 5 series sales( NIL again).
 
If there will be an impact then it will be based on BMW having one of the oldest models among the competition. Obviously the BMW 7 series will show sales declines in upcoming years due to its aging (similar to what the LS model experienced these past few years). The 7 Series does look real old when compared to its main competitor the MB S Class. But that is what aging is all about for any model.

#18641 of 24723 Re: Edmunds True Cost To Own [dewey] by houdini1

Sep 04, 2006 (5:43 am)

Replying to: dewey (Sep 03, 2006 9:34 pm)
Wrong again. Edmunds TCO shows a 2006 7 series sells for $86,262, and after 5 years is worth $47,472. Retained value about 45%. Slightly less than the LS.
 
Don't shoot the messenger, your argument is with Edmunds.

#18642 of 24723 Re: Edmunds True Cost To Own [houdini1] by blkhemi

Sep 04, 2006 (6:11 am)

Replying to: houdini1 (Sep 04, 2006 5:43 am)
So if Edmunds told you that the '07 LS is still the same boring piece of transport it always has been with some new tricks altho same soggy suspension, then I take you'll believe that too?? I didn't think so.
 
The M-B S-Class sets the tone in this class for retaining value. Anyone who knows anything about cars and value can tell you this. A 2000 S500, with all of it's supposed inherit troubles, still fetches north of 30k, a 7 year old lemon. That same ole reliable 2000 LS does lucky to break 20k. These are solid facts, not mere speculation from a 3rd party that really does not specialize in how a car receives or retains value.
 
And this time, please don't rely on the "what about Audi/VW" kick as it is as old as the promise Lexus makes about making the LS more of a performance model like it's European comp.
 
We're still waiting....... Another 6 years to go.

Messages Page 1865 of 2473

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