Last post on Jan 28, 2013 at 5:55 PM
You are in the Sedans
What is this discussion about?
Audi A8, BMW 7 Series, Jaguar XJ-Series, Lexus LS 460, Mercedes-Benz S-Class, Volkswagen Phaeton, Maserati Quattroporte, Mercedes-Benz CL-Class, Sedan
Let's try to define this forum as being limited to luxury performance vehicles where the mainstream version in a typical configuration has an MSRP of at least $60k.
A luxury vehicle with a base price of $59k qualifies because it would typically be bought with some additional equipment, bringing the MSRP over $60k.
Vehicles like the E, 5, A6, M, or GS, even if available in certain versions over $60k, don't qualify because they are cars from companies that have higher end cars in their lineups.
#18553 of 24726 Re: Ford to sell off Aston, possibly Jag? [nvbanker]
Sep 01, 2006 (12:58 am)
but it's the best platform that was built in the day. The poor S-type gets denigrated because it lent its platform to a Lincoln and a Thunderbird coupe.
When it was new DEW98 was average at best. If you are implying that it was a better platform than the '97 5 series, you're definitely mistaken. Perhaps sharing the AJ-V8 and platform with Lincoln was a mistake. The fact that its now being used on the Mustang certainly doesn't help its prestige.
The Mondeo is a great car. Europe loves it still. Making it an entry level Jag wasn't a big reach. If you drove it, you'd say, "Hey, this feels like a Jag, it drives like a Jag, and it smells like a Jag, for $30,000!" I've driven one. It's the cheap Jag for sure, but it's definitely a Jag. Could they do better? Not for that price.
Wrong wrong wrong. The Mondeo is a perfectly fine car, sure. It should never have been turned into a Jag, however. M-B could probably cut the build cost of a C-class in half if they used a Chrysler Sebring as a base. How do you think people would react to that? A Jaguar is not FWD. I've driven the X-type. No, it doesn't feel like a Jag. No, it doesn't drive like a Jag, and no, it doesn't even smell like a Jag. I've owned Jags with Connolly leather, I know what real Jags feel and smell like.
Yes, they could've done a lot better, even for that price. The X-type was originally supposed to hit in 2004. Instead they opted on a sloppy rush job. Quality of the initial run of cars was absolutely horrid. The warmed over Duratec engines were absolutely no match for the European competition, and the AWD system is about as crude as they come. The $30-40K entry lux market is the toughest gun fight in the luxury biz. Jaguar brought a rusty butter knife, and they paid for it.
#18554 of 24726 Re: Lexus [houdini1]
Sep 01, 2006 (1:01 am)
#18555 of 24726 Re: Ford to sell off Aston, possibly Jag? [lexusguy]
Sep 01, 2006 (1:05 am)
The $30-40K entry lux market is the toughest gun fight in the luxury biz. Jaguar brought a rusty butter knife, and they paid for it.
#18556 of 24726 Re: Ford to sell off Aston, possibly Jag? [merc1]
Sep 01, 2006 (1:16 am)
I also don't think life support cash infusions qualifies as "good things for the brand". Jaguar is giving cars away with enormous incentives, its resale values are laughable, and all of the new dealers that signed on for the "200,000 cars a year Jag" are either becoming glorified used car lots\service stations, or going out of business. Bang up job, Ford.
#18557 of 24726 Re: Ford to sell off Aston, possibly Jag? [lexusguy]
Sep 01, 2006 (1:39 am)
Yeah the situation is pretty bad right now. Most of the Jaguar dealers here have brand new facilities. Some of them are joined with other brands and some aren't. Those that aren't are stacked with used cars from all brands.
#18558 of 24726 The British are coming...or going...
Sep 01, 2006 (2:56 am)
Ford doesn't know what it wants to do with its PAG group. Now it is saying that Aston-Martin is for sale. I guess no one wanted Jaguar or Jaguar+Land Rover. Prestige wise they'd be nuts to sell Aston-Martin IMO, the brand is finally on it's feet and selling/bulding more than 90 cars a year. Business wise I guess it makes sense because they could likely get a pretty penny for Aston-Martin right now. What next selling Volvo?
It gets better, BMW is supposedly interested in buying Aston-Martin. Aston would make a perfect fit in the BMW Group IMO. Aston would fit in neatly between BMW and Rolls-Royce which is sizeable gap. There would be no overlap between BMW and Aston or Aston and Rolls. BMW could bring Aston's quality up to BMW's level and give Aston some help in the engine room, the V12 needs a power boost and the V8 in Vantage could be replaced with a M designed V8. This could work.
I can only imagine the mood at the highest, most secretive levels at Dearborn - complete and utter panic. Ford is brainstorm and crunching numbers like mad to see what they can get for this and what they can get for that.
#18559 of 24726 Re: HELM engines [tagman]
Sep 01, 2006 (3:39 am)
Avg. Displacement Across the Lineup
5.90 Liters MB
hahahahaha. You've got to question the accuracy of this guy's calculations.
#18560 of 24726 Re: Lexus [merc1]
Sep 01, 2006 (4:48 am)
The new 300 will use the new E platform.
Just wait and see. This is from an insider in Auburn Hills, MI. They have to do it to save money.
#18561 of 24726 Re: Lexus [merc1]
Sep 01, 2006 (4:57 am)
I agree that this should be an easy point to grasp. They are similar because they are both at the top concerning excellent practices, etc. Others are trying to catch up.
#18562 of 24726 Re: HELM engines [tagman]
Sep 01, 2006 (5:05 am)
Tag, in addition to all your other accomplishments, I see that you are now an expert on engine design. WOW. Lexus should be calling any second for more of your brilliant insights!