Last post on Jan 28, 2013 at 6:55 PM
You are in the Sedans
What is this discussion about?
Audi A8, BMW 7 Series, Jaguar XJ-Series, Lexus LS 460, Mercedes-Benz S-Class, Volkswagen Phaeton, Maserati Quattroporte, Mercedes-Benz CL-Class, Sedan
Let's try to define this forum as being limited to luxury performance vehicles where the mainstream version in a typical configuration has an MSRP of at least $60k.
A luxury vehicle with a base price of $59k qualifies because it would typically be bought with some additional equipment, bringing the MSRP over $60k.
Vehicles like the E, 5, A6, M, or GS, even if available in certain versions over $60k, don't qualify because they are cars from companies that have higher end cars in their lineups.
Oct 23, 2002 (3:25 pm)
i dont know who was saying that lexus whurt the US lux makers more than the Germans but that is false. Even in 1990 people didnt see US makes as equal to German imports and therefore the people who rushed to the Lexus dealership were people who would have considered a MB or a BMW (although that is a stretch) not a cadillac. Lexus made a big splash but i dont see them gaining any more ground a this point. Lexus offered you a MB like car with a better price and better quality. Their quality is still superior to German cars but people are over that now. MB, BMW and Audi are coming out with better products all the time and by this time next year Cadillac's lineup will be solid. Lexus needs something to stand out from the pack. If you subtract one vehicle, the RX300, their sales arent even that impressive. None of the other luxury makes are so reliant on one model, except maybe cadillac with the deville. The RX300 was innovative at the time and is selling well as far as I know but the compact lux SUV market is much tougher now than it was in '98. In other words the RX's best days are behind it and they will need another hit vehicle to sustain that #1 or #2 position. I think next year BMW will be #1 and Cadillac will be #2 in sales.
Oct 23, 2002 (3:26 pm)
WHo said young people drive LS430s? where do you live? I have NEVER seen a young person behind the wheel of an LS430. I have never heard a young person even refer to an LS430 as a car they would desire.
#1854 of 24723 Still looking for the 'Lexus Rattles' Edmunds link
Oct 23, 2002 (3:39 pm)
I think it was Glamourlife that said that Edmunds had a review of the LS430 where the driver said it had rattles and buzzes.
I read everything on the Edmunds board for the 2001 and 2002 LS430 and found nothing but effusive superlatives gushing from the reviewers.
One Edmund's reviewer loved the way it handled! Even on twisty Molholland Drive. Can you imagine that?
Oct 23, 2002 (4:46 pm)
I also remember nothing but superlatives in the reviews but I gave her the benefit of the doubt.
Oct 23, 2002 (5:22 pm)
1487, Lexus sales are not reliant on the RX300. Lexus was reliant a few years back when the previous ES300 was aging but the RX300 thru calender year 2002 makes up 31% of Lexus sales.
Here's a breakdown:
That shows Lexus sales are hardly reliant on just the RX300. And remember, The GX470 is right around the corner, as well as a new redesigned RX300 and LX470 not to mention for 2004 a new GS-series.
I love the pesimistic attitude that people have about Lexus; comments like "If you take away this one model, Lexus sales are nothing", or "BMW, Mercedes, AUdi are coming up with better products all the time and by next year Cadillac's lineup will be solid". Do you forget one thing? BMW, Mercedes Audi aren't the only ones coming up with better products, Lexus products are also constantly improving as are now Infiniti's. Lexus expanding product line is constantly expanding and becoming more solid year by year, as next year will be the intro. of the GX470 as well as all new RX300, '04 the GS-series and for '04 the SC330. ANd really what is going to make Cadillac's lineup so darn impressive next year? The CTS I like, it's a very nice car. But the SRX cross-over will come out. ANd a new Seville for '04 I believe. That's not really enough to catapult them over Lexus in sales, especially considering what I pointed out above about new model introductions coming next year.
I have never heard a young person even refer to an LS430 as a car they would desire." I also don't hear may your people refer to a Deville or a Seville as car they would desire. There is a better chance of a young one desiring a LS430 over a Deville or Seville, for example.
#1858 of 24723 maxhonda99
Oct 23, 2002 (6:38 pm)
Maybe we should take the top stock or highest bank account out of their personal holdings.
Now can you imagine what Microsoft would be without the windows operating system or what Coca Cola would be witout coke. Why should that be any different given the brand leadership of those products to the respective companies. Ridiculous.
#1859 of 24723 Young 'uns and grenades, etc.
Oct 23, 2002 (8:48 pm)
A philosophical question for 1487: How old do you have to be to be young (does that make any sense)? From my perspective, I would agree that I have not seen any young people driving the LS--that would be persons younger than about age 30. I am actually just kidding, and perhaps I am somewhat of an anomaly choosing the LS at my age--other's loss.
Pat: You are of course correct and must restore reason and civility. On the other hand, when someone runs into a room to throw in a grenade and it blows up in their face, you will find little pity.
So much for "research and facts": Earlier today, I read for the first time the new Edmunds overview info on the 2003 LS430. That write-up essentially refutes/disagrees with every comment made by glamourlife.
antiosama: Agree with you on the WS. Have found myself cheering for the Angels (probably as a result of that Disney movie!).
#1860 of 24723 Agree to Disagree...
Oct 24, 2002 (11:25 am)
One point I want to clarify though, I never said Lexus has terrible interiors, I just said more flash, gloss, etc. than substance. If the plush gawdy thing floats your boat, go for it. Its just that the shinyness does not equate with build quality and durability.
The interior of any new MB, BMW, or Audi may not employ as many gawdy materials as Lexus, but that does not mean they have lower build quality. In fact I am arguing the reverse is true.
In any event, I am tired of all the personal attacks. What would I stand to gain from fabricating an Edmunds review? Don't you think the host would call me on it?
Also, yes I have driven a S500 extensively. I have also driven a LS430. And in my opinion, yes the Lexus is amazingly serene, plush, and luxurious, however, it is still an imitation of an authentic.
And as for the LX470, I enjoyed my time with it, and I agree with the comment made about SUV's in general. We recently traded the LX470(last night), and I now have a 2003 E500. I am still "learning it", but all I can say is WOW! Any of you that feel the Lexus has superior build quality, please visit a MB dealer and check out the 2003 SL, S, or EClass'.
Again, let's not make this personal.
Oct 24, 2002 (12:36 pm)
i have to disagree with you on one thing. I have driven both the new 2003 E320 and E500, and I can only say that I was shocked by the ammount of cheap-feeling plastics. As for build quality, i think its questionable. However, I do like the exterior of the new E, which greatly resembles both the S-class (and unfortunately, in my opinion, the C-class).
I dont know, but if I were going to pay what, roughly $54,000+, i would get a LS430 (GPS... Mark Levinson sound...) I mean, GPS and a CD-player is optional on the E500...
But then, everyone has their own ideas and thoughts, and that was mine.
By the way, congradulations on your purchase of your new E500. Also, I heard that after about 2005 or so, Lexus my kill the LX470, but I am not sure about that...