Last post on Jan 28, 2013 at 6:55 PM
You are in the Sedans
What is this discussion about?
Audi A8, BMW 7 Series, Jaguar XJ-Series, Lexus LS 460, Mercedes-Benz S-Class, Volkswagen Phaeton, Maserati Quattroporte, Mercedes-Benz CL-Class, Sedan
Let's try to define this forum as being limited to luxury performance vehicles where the mainstream version in a typical configuration has an MSRP of at least $60k.
A luxury vehicle with a base price of $59k qualifies because it would typically be bought with some additional equipment, bringing the MSRP over $60k.
Vehicles like the E, 5, A6, M, or GS, even if available in certain versions over $60k, don't qualify because they are cars from companies that have higher end cars in their lineups.
#18138 of 24723 Re: Canadian Driver August 15, 2006 [merc1]
Aug 15, 2006 (10:22 pm)
Well that is why I have elected not to post on the LS-specific board if I'm not really seeking information about the car. That is only fair, IMO. I wouldn't want them on the MB-specific boards.
Well, the wonderful thing for us is that the LS is a HELM and is "on topic" for us to discuss. On the other hand, they are technically not supposed to discuss at length the other marques that we have the liberty to discuss here.
If they want to talk about the Mercedes and BMW and Audi HELMS, they can't do it for long on the LS board.
Nothing but LS over there. ALL the HELMS over here.
#18141 of 24723 FACTS and TRUTH on the HELM forum
Aug 15, 2006 (10:45 pm)
FACT: The '07 LS does not have a lot of low-end torque. The 0-60 acceleration time of 5.4 seconds is accomplished by the FACT that the first two gears in the new 8-speed tranny are specifically designed to be low enough to accommodate the low torque, and still enable brisk acceleration.
Thus, the engine DOES, in FACT, need higher revs to accelerate.
FACT: The engine is officially rated at 380 horsepower at 6400 rpm and 367 pound-feet at 4100 rpm. People can "fathom" all they want to . . . there is quite simply and FACTUALLY not a lot of low end torque to this engine.
FACTS and TRUTH on the HELM forum . . . and more to come.
Aug 15, 2006 (11:24 pm)
High reving engines make cars feel sportier . . . just like light/sporty handling . . . neither is what is much demanded in vehicles of this size class.
LS460 does not need to rev high to get good accelearation from start because its first two gears are low.
#18143 of 24723 Re: FACTS and TRUTH on the HELM forum [tagman]
Aug 15, 2006 (11:31 pm)
FACT: We have not seen the torque curve in graph yet. 367 lb-ft at 4100rpm peak could mean 330lb-ft at 1800rpm for all we know, until we see the torque curve to the contrary.
FACT: engines do not need higher revs to accelearate . . . engines always accelearate quickly at lower rpm's . . . because engine accelearation means increase of RPM in the engine itself, whether the vehicle is moving or not. What you meant probably was vehicle acceleration . . . in that case, whether an engine needs higher revs to get the vehicle to accelarate from low speed is quite dependent on transmission/final-drive configurations.
#18144 of 24723 Re: Canadian Driver August 15, 2006 [hpowders]
Aug 15, 2006 (11:41 pm)
Isn't that kinda redundant? Tossing a 545i too much on too tight curves may find the driver tossing something else too, compared to even a lowly 330i or Z4. Tossing the vehicle on tight curves are not what these big sedans are made for . . . dah! Get a $7k motorcycle for tossing fun.
#18145 of 24723 Re: Canadian Driver August 15, 2006 [brightness04]
Aug 16, 2006 (1:38 am)
Tossing the vehicle on tight curves are not what these big sedans are made for . . . dah! Get a $7k motorcycle for tossing fun.
That's not really true. The QP is in the 200" club, and is also a very tossable and fun car to drive, especially the Sport GT. Obviously a S55 AMG or Audi S8 stands no chance on a track against a M3 CSL or RS4. That doesn't mean they can't be fun on some twisty roads.
#18146 of 24723 Re: Canadian Driver August 15, 2006 [merc1]
Aug 16, 2006 (4:00 am)
As if Lexus is all of sudden going to make the LS any more fun to drive....why would they risk messing up the ride of the LS?
Yes, this is the essence of what happened and was predictable. I said on several occaisions in the past that the LS460 was unlikely to out-handle the German competition. In part because it makes good business sense to target a certain part of the market that has already been successful for the company (meaning luxury-leaning rather than sport-leaning) and in part because Lexus itself in its past PR only promised it would be the best-handling LS ever (as opposed to the best-handling in its class or best-handling Lexus).
If the sport-seeking are lucky then someday maybe we'll see a AMG/M-type LS, but my impression is that Lexus hasn't given any definitive indication that one will be forthcoming.