Last post on Jan 28, 2013 at 5:55 PM
You are in the Sedans
What is this discussion about?
Audi A8, BMW 7 Series, Jaguar XJ-Series, Lexus LS 460, Mercedes-Benz S-Class, Volkswagen Phaeton, Maserati Quattroporte, Mercedes-Benz CL-Class, Sedan
Let's try to define this forum as being limited to luxury performance vehicles where the mainstream version in a typical configuration has an MSRP of at least $60k.
A luxury vehicle with a base price of $59k qualifies because it would typically be bought with some additional equipment, bringing the MSRP over $60k.
Vehicles like the E, 5, A6, M, or GS, even if available in certain versions over $60k, don't qualify because they are cars from companies that have higher end cars in their lineups.
#18074 of 24726 Re: Canadian Driver August 15, 2006 [hpowders]
Aug 15, 2006 (2:49 am)
Well in all fairness it appears that the press introduction didn't include any LS460s with the sportier suspension setup. There is another review, just posted on the British site Autocar. See article. A few quotes:
At its core, the new 375bhp, 4.6-litre V8 provides excellent performance (0-62mph in 5.7sec) but needs to be worked hard to deliver it. That strongly suggests that it actually needs its eight gears rather the transmission being a thinly veiled two-finger salute to Mercedes-Benz with its paltry seven-speed gearbox.
I asked one of the Lexus fans long time ago what the advantage was to having a V8 in a luxury car that needs to be revved (to a sports car like RPM) in order to get the torque/power to move the car, but never got an answer. Simply put a larger engine that makes better low-end torque doesn't need to work as hard. To Lexus' credit though I'm sure there isn't an ounce of harshness, but the reviewer hints that 8 gears are needed because of the high-rev nature of the V8.
Should I buy one?
However impressive the LS460 is on paper, in real life it’s a hard car to love, even though you cannot help but admire it. Technological overload is all very well but not when it’s achieved at the expense of that sense of occasion so critical to all true luxury cars.
For all its undoubted abilities, it still feels like the world’s most grown-up Toyota. Its cabin functions effectively, but it is not the home from home customers increasingly expect from cars in this class and enjoy every time they step behind the wheel of most European rivals in general, and the Audi A8 in particular.
Technocrats will doubtless love it, but for the rest of us, the LS460 suffers from the same fundamental problem as both its predecessors: objectively it does everything you could ask of it, subjectively it falls a little short.
#18075 of 24726 Re: There [dhamilton]
Aug 15, 2006 (3:02 am)
It's kind of funny because they're sniping at each other over there, LOL.
Interesting. I took a peek over there and wouldn't you know it reads just like this board did a few days ago. One of Lexus' most ardent supporters is still trying to convince the rest of them that Lexus' prices are too low. Then you have the faction that actually thinks that because they aren't going to post here anymore that this board will "die off" and just like some of them wish for the end of MB, they're wishing for the demise of this board.
This is the same thing that happened a while back when someone from Team Europe started another thread, but only this time it is the Lexus fans that have run scared. I still don't get the attitude that anything they aren't a part of will fail or is somehow not worthy - beyond ridiculous.
#18076 of 24726 Re: There [merc1]
Aug 15, 2006 (4:28 am)
Because of your recent post, I glanced at the 2007 LS board.
Their conversation seem to be most concerned with what we HELM posters are talking about.
I wonder what a new poster looking for insights concerning the 2007 LS would think going over there for the first time?
I would hope the Host over there gently reminds them not to snipe at us, but to discuss the new 2007 LS.
Aug 15, 2006 (5:02 am)
the review states what "team Europe" has always been willing to say, The LS, and Lexus in general makes great quality cars that severely lack in descent driving dynamics but for anybody that doesn't care about that it's truly a great car, at a great value price.
Bottom line, don't feel bad about calling a car as you see it I think the veterans here Merc, Tag, Design, Lg, HP, blkhemi have way more knowledge of cars than I do, but ya can't lose sleep [not that anyone is] over someone that can't handle that their particular choice in cars isn't being worshiped in all categories. None of these HELMS do "everything" well. They can all stand to improve is some area. End of rant
Now, back to the discussion of German vs Italian Vs English design philosophy. Very interesting IMO and hopefully not to off topic for our good host.
#18078 of 24726 Re: There [hpowders]
Aug 15, 2006 (5:59 am)
What would also be really good is if the Host over here gently reminds all of you to discuss the cars and not the other discussion!
#18079 of 24726 Re: Canadian Driver August 15, 2006 [merc1]
Aug 15, 2006 (6:58 am)
I asked one of the Lexus fans long time ago what the advantage was to having a V8 in a luxury car that needs to be revved (to a sports car like RPM) in order to get the torque/power to move the car, but never got an answer. Simply put a larger engine that makes better low-end torque doesn't need to work as hard.
I recall that thread, and I remember how I mentioned the advantage of torque, as is relates to smooth quiet luxury, and then you sent me a link to the CLS AMG video which demonstrated torque at the extreme.
To Lexus' credit though I'm sure there isn't an ounce of harshness...
Not so fast, merc. That is not the case. They can deny it all they want, but there IS, I repeat, there IS harshness to the LS high RPM engine. Lexus has done a great job at isolating it, but it was one of the things that bothered me on my test drive of the LS last Thanksgiving. I wonder how much different this one will be.
#18082 of 24726 Re: Canadian Driver August 15, 2006 [merc1]
Aug 15, 2006 (7:50 am)
Thanks for posting this review of the new LS.
What a great quote! "Objectively it does everything you could ask of it, subjectively it falls a little short."
Really sums up what we Euros have been saying for years.
Am I reading too much into this, or does the guy driving the new LS in the photo look completely bored out of his skull?
As to the new sport package, I hope this version will be available at many Lexus dealers for people like me to test.
I remember last year inquiring about the "euro-tuned" version, and both salespeople at 2 different dealers looked at me like I was nuts-they acted like they didn't even know it was available!
Well, at least the coffee was good-served with cream from genuine Angus cows!
It's pretty easy getting used to the "Lexus Experience."
#18083 of 24726 You know, not for nothin', but
Aug 15, 2006 (8:01 am)
For a car with so many weaknesses, the LS (and accompanying board) sure gets a lot of airtime!
I frequently hear that the LS430 rattles like a hampster cage when you put your foot into it. This is what is known as "common knowledge". Hopefully Lexus will correct that defect in the LS460.
Does anyone else find it hard to fathom a 4300lb car that does 0-60 in 5.5 seconds being short on low-end torque, or NEEDING to be revved to draw power?
Maybe it has the greatest mid-range torque in the Universe!
I know everyone here is eager to see what the Next LS can do. In about two weeks, we will have more answers than questions.
Time will reveal. The force is strong with this one.