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High End Luxury Cars

24723 messages,  Last post on Jan 28, 2013 at 6:55 PM

You are in the Sedans Forum.

What is this discussion about? Audi A8, BMW 7 Series, Jaguar XJ-Series, Lexus LS 460, Mercedes-Benz S-Class, Volkswagen Phaeton, Maserati Quattroporte, Mercedes-Benz CL-Class, Sedan



Let's try to define this forum as being limited to luxury performance vehicles where the mainstream version in a typical configuration has an MSRP of at least $60k.

A luxury vehicle with a base price of $59k qualifies because it would typically be bought with some additional equipment, bringing the MSRP over $60k.

Vehicles like the E, 5, A6, M, or GS, even if available in certain versions over $60k, don't qualify because they are cars from companies that have higher end cars in their lineups.

Messages Page 1807 of 2474

#18052 of 24723 Re: May be getting closer [blkhemi] by reality2

Aug 13, 2006 (7:59 pm)

Replying to: blkhemi (Aug 13, 2006 9:27 am)
Since you are getting the awesome Audi S8, another high perfomance car might be overkill. Since you are accustomed to the Audi A8L W12, another similar type of HELM like the Audi A8 is probably the best bet for you. I think the S600 with the V12 is the way to go since you had to part with your W12 (that must have been a very tough day!). The S600 and the A8L W12 are the best two HELMS in their class and have the same aura about them. But more importantly, the S600 will represent a nice alternative in terms of driving to your new S8. One very sports-like and one very luxury-like. Yet, both with extreme luxury and great performance. I am purposely staying away from details like engine, etc. I think this is more about appeal and contrast for you. Plus you stated that for this kind of money, the interior (not just the car) better be special. So, I think in this regard the S-Class (S600 that is) and the A8/S8 are the benchmarks. Either way you have a nice choice to make.
As you know, I have the A8L W12 as well and just ordered my new 2007 Audi S6 (due in November like your S8), so I like the contrast of high performance and high luxury. Since you are choosing between the S65 and S600, and like I said, I would go with the S600 to have a nice contrast in terms of of driving experience. Although, if your wife is going to drive the S8 all the time...hmm.. maybe the MB S65 is just what is needed... Man, this is a difficult choice. I'll get back to you...

#18053 of 24723 Re: Thanks Pat [blkhemi] by merc1

Aug 13, 2006 (10:03 pm)

Replying to: blkhemi (Aug 11, 2006 3:33 pm)
Tag, Merc, hp, dewey, reality, even LG, what do you fellas think of the QP, particularly the GT? I respect your views on cars more so than most on here as they're unbiased, unlike some the "perfecto's".
 
Simply put the most chrasmatic car in the segment. I haven't read any reviews complaining about the Duo Select in the new Sport GT version so maybe they've gotten that under control now. Of course I personally love the look, inside and out and like you said it has a Ferrari engine. For a person that has other cars for daily drivers I'd say go for the Maser. This is from a Mercedes-Benz devotee no less! The S600 is a totally different car as you know, no comparison between the two at what each of them are designed to excel at.
 
Just so I'll understand you're looking at replacing the A8L W12 with either the S600 or the Q Sport GT or is there some other scenario in play?
 
EDIT: After reading the rest of your posts I see you gave up the A8L W12, so you're looking for the best 2 of the 3 cars you've mentioned: Maser Q Sport GT, S600, S8? Well since I don't see you doing without an Audi and because you're getting the sportiest version of the A8, the S8 I'd say the ideal balance in your garage would be the S8 and the S600. The S600 can't be topped for power and luxury and the S8 from all that I've read so far is about as close to something like the Quattroporte you can get in this segment. Correction, the S600 can be topped by the S65 which is a ridiculously powerful/luxurious car, but remmeber it requires another 50K. I mean you aren't likely to encounter any sedans that will outrun you in your S600 anyway. Another scenario cuts the S8 out and goes for the S600 and the Quattroporte Sport GT, but you have to ask yoursel do you want total opposites in your garage? The S8 and Maser are more similar than the S600 is to either of them IMO.
 
M

#18054 of 24723 Re: Thanks Pat [lexusguy] by merc1

Aug 13, 2006 (10:08 pm)

Replying to: lexusguy (Aug 11, 2006 10:58 pm)
I agree on the interiors. The German cars are, well German. The attention to the smallest details in the A8 and the new S is of course first rate. Every last piece has been calculated to absolute perfection. That, I think, is what German luxury is all about.
  
The inside of the QP is also incredibly luxurious, but in an Italian style. It's in the look, the feel, rather than ultimate build quality. The QP reminds me of the famous Italian speaker company, Sonus Faber. They use lute shaped cabinets, with hand matched wood panels, leather baffles, and silk wire grilles. To Sonus Faber, the look and feel is just as important as the sound quality.
  
The QP is not an engineering tour de force like the new S class, and it feels out of its element on bumpy city streets. What the QP does have though is soul inside and out, that you can't get from Jaguar, Mercedes, Audi, or BMW, and certainly not Lexus. It's not a well rounded car, but it is a fantastic Italian drivers car.
 
You know LG you're alright with me! Excellent take on the Quattroporte Sport GT. I was really shocked to see EVO pick the CLS55 over the Quattroporte Sport GT recently. The E63 beating the M5 in several German mags, what in the world?
 
M

#18055 of 24723 Re: From a Lexus owner [topspin628] by merc1

Aug 13, 2006 (10:13 pm)

Replying to: topspin628 (Aug 12, 2006 8:02 am)
Very well balanced and more importantly truthful post! Thanks for proving that price does matter for some buyers in this segment. Once again thanks for a great level-headed post.
 
M

#18056 of 24723 United Nations by merc1

Aug 13, 2006 (11:09 pm)

All this talk about different cars from different countries has me thinking about how each nation goes about building what they think is the ideal luxury/performance machine.
 
The Italians go for three things IMO, looks, handling, and sound. I see LG and Designman have touched on this. Proof of this is the recent comparo at C&D between the 911 Turbo, F430 and Z06. The Z06 beats them both in nearly all the measurements of performance, yet it came in last and slowest of the 3, the Ferrari came in first. That is simply called charisma. Nothing sounds, looks or goes like an Italian car, even when they aren't the fastest in instrumented testing, they apparently feel and more importantly sound like they are! Nothing looks or sounds like a Lamborghini or Ferrari to their owners even when they're being passed on the highway by a mere "Chevy". I won't even bring up the huge cottage industry the Italians have going on with sports cars like the Zonda. This lineage and heritage is what makes a car like Quattroporte Sport GT so irresistible to those who drive/own them. Just take a look in the Quattroporte thread and you'll see what I mean. There is an immediate sense of thrill and adventure and come what may attitude with the car as long as they get to enjoy it. Only old-time British car owners from the dark periods truly understand this disposition. Many German car owners have bailed on this point.
 
Germans go for cold efficiency and technical brilliance and superior/detailed construction. This makes them juggernaughts on the road, but next to Italian cars they come off "soulless" by many accounts. The 911 Turbo, a car with its engine in the rear and a shape that could only be pulled off by years of conditioning rich folks to accept it, is for all intent and purposes is a something a German rocket scientist would come up with. Cold, brutal, efficient performance during which form must follow function.
 
The British are similar to Italians in regards to going for how a car looks, sounds, and smells. Jaguar, Bentley, Rolls-Royce and Aston-Martin all share these elements. The difference here is that while an Audi A8 or S600 may be better "put together", their leather and especially wood work isn't lovingly wrought as say a Bentley or Aston-Martin. The British are somewhat the opposite of the Germans in another regard also, they'll stick wood and leather anywhere they please, function be damned. This creates charming if sometimes ergonomically flawed interiors that stun passengers, but at the same time would infuriate a driver coming from say a Japanese car to a Bentley or Aston-Martin. The British are pretty skilled with a V12s too.
 
One area where the British and Italians soundly whop the Germans is in the area of customization. For example, take a look at the Bentley or Maserati websites. The level of details that can be specified is mind boggling. I mean you can choose the color of the seatbelts for goodness sake! German, Japanese and American car company bean counters would drop dead at such a suggestion.
 
The Japanese are similar to the Germans in the way that they typically, but not always put function before form. Their problem has been that the “form” end of that hasn’t come out to well. They also bring the whole reliability, ease of use game to the table, which has proven to be quite successful for Lexus in particular. The Japanese still miss out on a lot of the finer points when it comes to what makes European cars in general so desirable, but they’re attempting to make up for that with a more trouble free ownership experience. This works, but it has limits.
 
M

#18057 of 24723 Re: Thanks Pat [merc1] by lexusguy

Aug 13, 2006 (11:09 pm)

Replying to: merc1 (Aug 13, 2006 10:08 pm)
I was really shocked to see EVO pick the CLS55 over the Quattroporte Sport GT recently. The E63 beating the M5 in several German mags, what in the world?
 
I can see why a mag might choose the CLS55. It's got good looks and great performance, but it can turn into a normal everyday car, which the QP can't really do. It's always in sport mode, which some may not want in a four door sedan.
 
I'm not really a big fan of the new M5. I think it's pointlessly over computerized and complicated, for example offering a choice between 400hp, 500hp, and 500 "Sport" hp. Why is that necessary?

#18058 of 24723 Re: Thanks Pat [lexusguy] by merc1

Aug 13, 2006 (11:24 pm)

Replying to: lexusguy (Aug 13, 2006 11:09 pm)
I'm not really a big fan of the new M5. I think it's pointlessly over computerized and complicated, for example offering a choice between 400hp, 500hp, and 500 "Sport" hp. Why is that necessary?
 
I agree with this for the most part, but I can see the point of the having different power modes. The M5 is trying to be more versatile I guess. Around town 400hp is all you need, but at the track you want the instant gear changes and blade-sharp throttle response hence the 500 Sport mode. I think BMW knows they sorta over did it with the M5 because a much easier to use good ole fashioned manual is on the way!
 
The comparo I'm waiting to see in a U.S. magazine is the Audi S6, E63, M5 and Quattroporte Sport GT. Maybe MT or Road and Track will do this, C&D will find some excuse not to put these 4 together I bet.
 
M

#18059 of 24723 Re: United Nations [merc1] by lexusguy

Aug 13, 2006 (11:24 pm)

Replying to: merc1 (Aug 13, 2006 11:09 pm)
The British are pretty skilled with a V12s too.
 
Skilled, yes, but the Germans and Italians are masters of the V-12. The English can't match BMW's McLaren F1 engine, or the Zonda's AMG engine, or any Ferrari V-12.

#18060 of 24723 Re: United Nations [lexusguy] by merc1

Aug 13, 2006 (11:25 pm)

Replying to: lexusguy (Aug 13, 2006 11:24 pm)
The English can't match BMW's McLaren F1 engine, or the Zonda's AMG engine, or any Ferrari V-12.
 
Oh I agree. The British V12s aren't really "British" anymore anyway.
 
M

#18061 of 24723 Re: Thanks Pat [merc1] by lexusguy

Aug 13, 2006 (11:30 pm)

Replying to: merc1 (Aug 13, 2006 11:24 pm)
Around town 400hp is all you need, but at the track you want the instant gear changes and blade-sharp throttle response hence the 500 Sport mode. I think BMW knows they sorta over did it with the M5 because a much easier to use good ole fashioned manual is on the way!

I think Ferrari's system is much better, with a single switch that offers Sport, Race, and all driving aids off mode. Suppose an E63 wants to drag race, and you're in 400hp around town mode. You have to tell the Benz driver "hang on, I've got to set up my car for this. Give me a few minutes".

Messages Page 1807 of 2474

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