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Sedans High End Luxury Cars
24697 messages, Last post on Nov 28, 2009 at 3:09 PM
You are in the Sedans Forum. Your Hosts are pat & karens
Let's try to define this forum as being limited to luxury performance vehicles where the mainstream version in a typical configuration has an MSRP of at least $60k.
A luxury vehicle with a base price of $59k qualifies because it would typically be bought with some additional equipment, bringing the MSRP over $60k.
Vehicles like the E, 5, A6, M, or GS, even if available in certain versions over $60k, don't qualify because they are cars from companies that have higher end cars in their lineups.
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Replying to: dewey (Aug 11, 2006 7:26 pm)  TagMan |
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I am currently into the last year of a 3 year lease of a Lexus LS430 and at this point I feel that I can give a good objective summary of this car. (By the way, I have also leased BMWs, MB's Infiniti and Lexus in the past). Before I got this car, I had considered the A8L (SWB was not available at that time),BMW 7 and MB S Class. The A8L was so long that it would not fit in my garage and I felt like a limo driver. I liked the ride but I was hesitant about Audi quality reputation and while I liked the interior, I was not in love with the exterior and it did not "feel" like a 70-80K car to me. The S Class stole my heart in terms of looks and image. But I had heard so many horror stories about electronics issues and with the lease price a good 400 per month more than the Lexus, I couldn't bring myself to pull the trigger. If the price would have been within 200 per month, I would have taken a shot that the quality issues would not apply to my car. But to stretch to 400 and be in the service shop was not my thing. The 7 series did not feel luxurious enough to me for the price and, not that it's a bad thing, but I "only" felt like I was driving a big 3 series, a car I had and loved. So I went with the "value" play and to me it is a compromise. (another big reason was that I wanted blue tooth conductivity for hands free and the others didn't offer at the time). While the car has a fantastic build quality and everything works the right way every time, it is not an inspiring car to drive. I got it for comfort, reliability and convenience and it delivers very well on those. However it definitely lacks the driving dynamics of the Euros. It floats over the road and doesn't convey the feeling of control that one gets from the Euros mentioned above. Sometimes I find myself getting a bit weary because I feel disconnected from the drive. The seats are OK, like a nice couch but I prefer the firmer more supportive MB, BMW style. I wish the steering was more connected and tighter even if just in highway driving not canyon carving. Great radio, great electronics in the Lexus and one gets the idea that this car will continue to be fully functional and flawless for 200,000 miles or more. All said, I think my next car will be European. I love the new S Class and while I haven't driven one, I may be tempted especially if they bring a smaller engine at a lower price. To me,that is still the king of the road luxury car with the most solid feel and good compromise between lux and sport (The last S430 I did drive). I look at the S Class and I think that it's the pinnacle and there's no where else to go (I wouldn't drive a Maybach,Rolls etc even if I could ever afford one or won the lottery) Or maybe the BMW, if it improves with the next 7 with a turbo engine and fixing the electronic glitches. Lexus is still a value based company in my opinion. Meaning that they must undercut the Europeans in price since they still lack in prestige even though it's amazing how far they've come in such a short time. Dollar for dollar being equal or close, I would have gone with the S Class last time around, but while my heart wanted the S, my brain convinced me to go with the LS which had more goodies for less money with the reliability aspect added in for good measure. I think it would be premature for them to price their cars equal or close to the Euros. I for one would love to see them take a stab at a sport version (like AMG or M) with firm seats, tighter steering etc) but I think that the marketing types and bean counters are looking at the typical US Lexus owner who wants the best Caddy, Town Car ever made. And it's that by a long shot. Do they want to alienate their core clients or dilute their approach for the sake a few guys like us that rant and rave on Edmunds! In the end, they are running a business to make a profit and to grab market share. As long as they are very successful I don't think we will see them change their strategy. |
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Replying to: topspin628 (Aug 12, 2006 7:02 am) Pretty much confirms what I don't like about the LS-the disappointing disconnect from the involving driver's experience-due to the floaty suspension, the loose steering and the excessive body lean. Glad you mentioned the seats. I did not find the LS driver's seat all that comfortable either-my 545's comfort seats are a big improvement, as of course is the driving excitement. However, as you point out, the LS has its enthusiastic supporters here, and the fact that it has and will most likely continue to sell well, shows there are many people who enjoy the luxury of a limo experience at a HELM value price. The LS is very good at what it provides. Those of us who find it disappointing have plenty of other choices. I have previously posted that Lexus should offer a serious sport package for the LS as Toyota does with the Camry SE. Keep in mind relative quality has improved significantly, so if a Lexus vehicle is currently rated "excellent" and a BMW, "average"-that "average" would probably have been equivalent to "better than average", just a few years ago. Whichever vehicle you decide on, Euro or Japanese, please come back and share your experience. A wonderful post! 
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Replying to: topspin628 (Aug 12, 2006 7:02 am) The fact that your post is a real-life testimonial adds credibility. You have hit on many of the key differences between a Lexus LS and an alternative such as an S-class or BMW. Your experience reinforces the "safer", "value-conscious" approach to purchasing a Lexus, and that when doing so, there are attributes left behind . . . "driving dynamics", as you put it, is certainly one of them. Yes, your heart wanted the S. . . . but your wallet would have been squeezed too tightly at the time. Hopefully next time your heart will prevail, and you will enjoy a wonderful S-class, BMW, or other Eurocar. Thanks again for that post . . . it was like a nice piece of candy. TagMan |
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| great post. Nice to hear real world experience. The LS is truly great at what it does, value, reliability, excellent customer service, great build quality, but that is where it ends. | |
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Replying to: hpowders (Aug 12, 2006 7:24 am) I hope the new S Class is improved in that area. That being said, I do agree that cars today are so much more reliable than in the past that the bar is raised so high to get a very good rating. This is a good thing for all of us. My 00 BMW 3 had 2 small annoyance fixed quickly and was flawless for 50K miles. And I loved driving it! MY wife's X5 actually had 2 occurances of computer malfunctions which rendered the car undriveable and it had to be towed. But to this day, she will tell you that it's her favorite car of all time. Now, can we get a car with great Euro driving dynamics and the bullet proof reliability of the Lexus? That would be crowned the "New Champion"
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Replying to: topspin628 (Aug 12, 2006 8:22 am) In real life . . . probably not. the Lexus is tops at reliability and no other cars, not even other Japanese cars, do as well, although some come pretty close. Interestingly, though, the latest generation of all-aluminum Jaguars do exceptionally well in the latest years of JD Power surveys, within a stone's throw of the Lexus on occasion. Incredible! I am not suggesting that a Jag is in your future, however, just remarking on the "reliability" topic. I would be willing to bet that the latest '07 S-class will start to accumulate some very good quality and reliabiity statistics as time goes. From what I know so far, it is doing very well. TagMan |
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Replying to: designman (Aug 12, 2006 5:43 am) Italian "soul" isn't really about handling. It's about the sound and fury of those V8s and V12s. The M5 doesn't have that.
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