High End Luxury Cars

24700 messages, Last post on Dec 01, 2009 at 12:24 PM

You are in the Sedans Forum. Your Hosts are pat & karens

What is this discussion about? Audi A8, BMW 7 Series, Jaguar XJ-Series, Lexus LS 460, Mercedes-Benz S-Class, Volkswagen Phaeton, Maserati Quattroporte, Mercedes-Benz CL-Class, Sedan

Let's try to define this forum as being limited to luxury performance vehicles where the mainstream version in a typical configuration has an MSRP of at least $60k.

A luxury vehicle with a base price of $59k qualifies because it would typically be bought with some additional equipment, bringing the MSRP over $60k.

Vehicles like the E, 5, A6, M, or GS, even if available in certain versions over $60k, don't qualify because they are cars from companies that have higher end cars in their lineups.

Outline

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#17429 of 24700 Re: Actually, [syswei] by merc1 Aug 02, 2006 (3:22 am)
Replying to: syswei (Aug 02, 2006 3:10 am) I haven't really been reading what all the fuss is about with the surveys this time around, but I do think JDP should have broken the IQS into two surveys because certain brands (like BMW) rank differently when you break down the two categories they used this year: A little something I saw on MBWorld.org, someone posted the breakout for the study: Auto news More rankings June 8, 2006 Email this Print this Related articles: • J.D. POWER SURVEY: Hyundai leapfrogs Toyota in quality Overall quality The number of quality problems reported by buyers of new cars and trucks continues to fall. PP100 % change 1998 176 1999 167 9.00 5.11% 2000 154 13.00 7.78% 2001 147 7.00 4.55% 2002 133 14.00 9.52% 2003 133 0.00 0.00% 2004 119 14.00 10.53% 2005 118 1.00 0.84% 2006 109 9.44 8.00% Pickup quality Pickups remain one of the last strongholds for Detroit automakers. General Motors Corp. trucks ruled the roost on quality, followed closely by Toyota. Pickup truck PP100 Chevrolet Silverado LD 98 Chevrolet Silverado HD/GMC Sierra HD (tie) 101 Toyota Tundra 103 GMC Sierra LD 104 Ford F-150 107 Dodge Ram LD 117 Pickup average 118 Ford F250/350 127 Chevrolet Avalanche 132 Nissan Titan 145 Dodge Ram HD 147 Design defects The annual report by J.D. Power and Associates separated manufacturing and quality defects for the first time. This is how many design defects, such as difficult-to-use navigation systems or door locks, were reported per 100 vehicles. DESIGN SORT Design PP100 1 Porsche 35 2 Hyundai 41 3 GMC 43 4 Jaguar 44 5 Lexus 45 6 Nissan 45 7 Honda 46 8 Toyota 47 9 Chevrolet 49 10 Lincoln 50 11 Ford 50 12 Acura 51 13 Dodge 51 14 Mitsubishi 51 15 Infiniti 52 16 Industry Average 52 17 Saturn 54 18 Pontiac 55 19 Mercury 56 20 Jeep 56 21 Cadillac 57 22 Kia 58 23 Chrysler 59 24 Volvo 61 25 Audi 62 26 Scion 62 27 Saab 63 28 Mazda 64 29 Suzuki 66 30 Buick 68 31 Mercedes 68 32 Subaru 69 33 Isuzu 70 34 VW 73 35 Mini 77 36 Hummer 80 37 BMW 82 38 Land Rover 89 Manufacturing defects The annual report by J.D. Power and Associates separated manufacturing and quality defects for the first time. This is how many manufacturing defects, such as engine or paint problems, were reported per 100 vehicles. Brands Defects PP100 1 Lexus 42 2 Porsche 49 3 Toyota 52 4 BMW 52 5 Hyundai 53 6 Chrysler 53 7 Cadillac 54 8 Buick 55 9 Honda 57 10 Infiniti 57 11 Jaguar 59 12 Audi 60 13 Acura 63 14 Lincoln 63 15 Industry Average 64 16 Volvo 64 17 Mercury 65 18 Mercedes 65 19 Mini 65 20 Subaru 67 21 Chevrolet 69 22 Ford 69 23 GMC 70 24 Nissan 70 25 Saturn 70 26 Pontiac 70 27 Scion 71 28 Dodge 72 29 Kia 72 30 Mitsubishi 78 31 Mazda 79 32 Hummer 79 33 Jeep 87 34 VW 87 35 Saab 91 36 Suzuki 93 37 Land Rover 106 38 Isuzu 110 2006 Nameplate rankings Consumers reported the following number of quality problems -- including manufacturing defects and design flaws -- per 100 vehicles in J.D. Power and Associates' annual quality survey: Brands PP100 1 Porsche 91 2 Lexus 93 3 Hyundai 102 4 Toyota 106 5 Jaguar 109 6 Honda 110 7 Cadillac 117 8 Infiniti 117 9 GMC 119 10 Acura 120 11 Chrysler 120 12 Lincoln 121 13 Nissan 121 14 Chevrolet 124 15 Industry Average 124 16 Ford 127 17 Mercury 129 18 Saturn 129 19 Audi 130 20 Dodge 132 21 Pontiac 133 22 Volvo 133 23 Buick 134 24 Mitsubishi 135 25 Kia 136 26 Mercedes 139 27 Scion 140 28 BMW 142 29 Subaru 146 30 Mazda 150 31 Mini 150 32 Jeep 153 33 Saab 163 34 Suzuki 169 35 Hummer 171 36 VW 171 37 Isuzu 191 38 Land Rover 204 M Replies to this message: syswei (Aug 02, 2006 3:30 am) merc1 (Aug 02, 2006 3:40 am) syswei (Aug 02, 2006 4:17 am) hpowders (Aug 02, 2006 4:49 am) merc1 (Aug 02, 2006 4:54 am) syswei (Aug 02, 2006 5:20 am) lexusguy (Aug 02, 2006 5:47 am) and 2 more...
#17430 of 24700 Re: Actually, [merc1] by syswei Aug 02, 2006 (3:30 am)
Replying to: merc1 (Aug 02, 2006 3:22 am) Thanks, it's good to see more detailed rankings. And I agree that "design quality" should have been a separate study, not lumped into IQS. Replies to this message: merc1 (Aug 02, 2006 3:40 am) syswei (Aug 02, 2006 4:17 am)
#17431 of 24700 Re: Actually, [syswei] by merc1 Aug 02, 2006 (3:40 am)
Replying to: syswei (Aug 02, 2006 3:30 am) I've talked to S-Class owners at MBWorld and some of the APPEAL questions are like: how does the car smell, or how do the seats feel after hours of driving and various styling questions. I can't link you to forum per Edmunds rules, but some of the 07' S-Class owners posted some of the questions from the APPEAL study. Interesting stuff. M Replies to this message: syswei (Aug 02, 2006 4:17 am)
#17432 of 24700 Jaguar to be sold??? by syswei Aug 02, 2006 (4:09 am)
Ford is launching a strategic review of its Jaguar brand and other ailing operations. The review, spearheaded by newly hired adviser Kenneth Leet, could lead to the sale of assets or broader alliances with other companies. source WSJ
#17433 of 24700 Re: Actually, [merc1] by syswei Aug 02, 2006 (4:17 am)
Replying to: merc1 (Aug 02, 2006 3:40 am) Couldn't find it, but interesting.
#17434 of 24700 Re: Actually, [merc1] by hpowders Aug 02, 2006 (4:49 am)
Replying to: merc1 (Aug 02, 2006 3:22 am) I wonder how a difficult to use navigation system is classified as a design defect if it is performing perfectly as originally intended? Replies to this message: merc1 (Aug 02, 2006 4:54 am) syswei (Aug 02, 2006 5:20 am) lexusguy (Aug 02, 2006 5:47 am) hpowders (Aug 02, 2006 6:07 am) hpowders (Aug 02, 2006 6:12 am)
#17435 of 24700 Re: Actually, [hpowders] by merc1 Aug 02, 2006 (4:54 am)
Replying to: hpowders (Aug 02, 2006 4:49 am) I guess the "problem" is that owners feel it should be easier to use in the first place. Clearly BMW got knocked for those types of things vs actual mechanical defects because they scored in the top 4 on "quality". M
#17436 of 24700 Re: Actually, [hpowders] by syswei Aug 02, 2006 (5:20 am)
Replying to: hpowders (Aug 02, 2006 4:49 am) We could debate whether "design defect" is the appropriate terminology, or what survey that sort of issue really belongs in, but the bottom line to me is that a well-designed/easy-to-use NAV, working perfectly, is better than a poorly-designed/hard-to-use NAV, working perfectly. So these things do matter. Replies to this message: lexusguy (Aug 02, 2006 5:47 am) hpowders (Aug 02, 2006 6:07 am) hpowders (Aug 02, 2006 6:12 am)
#17437 of 24700 Re: Actually, [syswei] by lexusguy Aug 02, 2006 (5:47 am)
Replying to: syswei (Aug 02, 2006 5:20 am) but the bottom line to me is that a well-designed/easy-to-use NAV, working perfectly, is better than a poorly-designed/hard-to-use NAV, working perfectly. So these things do matter. Definitely agree there. Unfortunately, despite the mags (and apparently consumers) complaining about iDrive, most of the luxury automakers think its the greatest thing since sliced bread, and have made their own similar system. Acura's in particular is a mess. In the RDX, the control knob takes up so much space on the center stack that the stereo controls are literally buried beneath it. The volume knob looks about as large as a thumb tack. Replies to this message: hpowders (Aug 02, 2006 6:07 am) hpowders (Aug 02, 2006 6:12 am)
#17438 of 24700 Re: Actually, [lexusguy] by hpowders Aug 02, 2006 (6:07 am)
Replying to: lexusguy (Aug 02, 2006 5:47 am) Well, as these cars become more and more technologically sophisticated, iDrive-type gizmos are becoming the norm. I can't see Lexus holdng out much longer in this respect. Would love to see what they do with an iDrive-like interface. No doubt, it would be the most user-friendly.