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Sedans High End Luxury Cars
24700 messages, Last post on Dec 01, 2009 at 12:24 PM
You are in the Sedans Forum. Your Hosts are pat & karens
Let's try to define this forum as being limited to luxury performance vehicles where the mainstream version in a typical configuration has an MSRP of at least $60k.
A luxury vehicle with a base price of $59k qualifies because it would typically be bought with some additional equipment, bringing the MSRP over $60k.
Vehicles like the E, 5, A6, M, or GS, even if available in certain versions over $60k, don't qualify because they are cars from companies that have higher end cars in their lineups.
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Replying to: tagman (Jul 30, 2006 9:18 pm) BMW and VW got a hold of Rolls and Bentley repsectively so Mercedes decided to switch up the program (i.e. make a mistake) and make "Maybach" a seperate brand. Since the car was originally designed as a Mercedes there was little time to change it into something truly unique so they were pretty much stuck with what we see today. Now I would guess you're looking at the 175-190K price range because of what Bentley has been able to do at that price right? The difference is that Bentley doesn't have to compete with anyone else from the VW empire at that price. As it stands with Maybach the 57S which is the sportiest Maybach is really rendered pointless on paper by the faster, betting handling, more techincally advanced S65 AMG. Part of the reason the current Maybachs don't sell is because the S-Class really puts them in the shade functionally. Sure you can get more space in a Maybach, but the S-Class holds all the cars in everything else, even in name recognition because lets face it Maybach doesn't really ring the bell nearly as loud as "Rolls-Royce" does or even "S-Class". You say either one of those and people know exactly what you're talking about. A cheaper Maybach in the 175-190K range would do one of two things; would make a car like the S65 pointless or the cheaper Maybach would render itself pointless if it isn't crushingly superior. Either way one of them loses, IMO. Maybach should never go below the price of an Arnage, around 235K or so below that and you risk making the pricest S-Class models a hard-sell. Now you did mention what I was thinking, maybe a S-Class shouldn't costs 190K in the first place, that is something to think about. Either way they can't overlap, even if it means getting rid of the S65 AMG or keeping Maybach more exclusive in the 225K+ realm. M
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Replying to: oac (Jul 30, 2006 9:34 pm) You read so much into a discussion (no one called you anything!) for the sake of not having to deal with the points that were raised. Also, where did anyone say that HELM automatically means purist? You're right there is no sense in discussing this with you because you can't seem to get past this group of sedans when we're discussing entire brands and/or the companies that own them. All this babble about Mercedes and Dr. Z only applies to HEL sedans? One minute we're talking about Dr Z and and what he will do with Mercedes-Benz and how the purist will react and/of they will be please, and in the next purist don't care about HEL sedans. Makes a whole lot of sense except for the fact that "Dr Z" is in charge of much more than the S-Class!! He runs MB and that is where the "purist" angle came in. You got it confused with how you think a "purist" would want a S-Class or some other HELM sedan to drive. You're the one that got it confused. Another thing, I didn't say I was a "purist" your fellow Lexus fan did. You don't seem to know what a purist is when it comes to what we're talking about here. Let Lexus start doing cars like the original IS300, making a "Lexus" out of a mere "Toyota" and you'll grasp the meaning of the word and take the "purist" attitude really quick. M |
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Replying to: merc1 (Jul 30, 2006 9:35 pm) Absolutely correct. As you explain the problem, however, Maybach's competition becomes Mercedes itself, and frankly, that's unacceptable to me. Maybach needs to be considered a competitor to Bentley, RR, etc., and therefore manufactured, priced, and marketed as such. Otherwise, it just becomes a continuing dilemma. TagMan
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Replying to: tagman (Jul 30, 2006 9:48 pm) The part that gets me about the whole Maybach thing was that some at MB felt that "Mercedes-Benz" wasn't prestigious enough to compete with "Bentley" and "Rolls-Royce" anymore, but yet they elected to slap the "Mercedes-Benz" badge on the A-Class and B-Class vehicles, which do nothing positive image-wise for Mercedes. Someone at MB forgot that Mercedes-Benz back in the day had no trouble competing and in many cases surpassing the best Rolls and Bentley had to offer. M |
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"According to Auto Motor und Sport, the new Maybach 51 (with the model number indicating its 5.1 meter length) will not grace the marketplace before the 2009-2010 timeframe. The 51 is said to be targeted at a price point north of $250,000 at current exchange rates, positioning it against the Bentley Continental Flying Spur and the upcoming small Rolls-Royce. The magazine reports that the mini Maybach will be based on the Mercedes-Benz S-class platform, giving it access to a choice of V8 and V12 powerplants. Both sedan and coupe versions are planned."
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Replying to: lexusguy (Jul 30, 2006 10:13 pm) M |
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Sorry about my indiscretion. The E350 was there. Regarding the IS300, my point was to show that it was not Roadkill, as Team Europe likes to put over on these airwaves. The fact that it was a couple of points behind the vaunted 328i shows it had great driving dynamics, and deserves respect. I know you want to run out and buy a GS460 this fall, but let's start cutting the S-Class sales in half with a new LS before we get you your GS460 next Summer, K? YES, I SAID IT! The S-Class will not sell 3k a month in 2007. It'll fall to 1500-2000 a month when the new LS changes the market direction this October. There WILL be plenty of buyers who would rather pay $900-1000 a month for an LS, than $13-1400 a month for an S550. DrFill
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I guess this was missed in my previous posts, so it bears repeating: Lexus could become Ford or VW for a year, and still be Quality Standard. With Lexus sales up 10% a year, for the last deacde or so, I'd say these are exceptions, not the rule. I thank NV and SV for their testimonials, but at the same point, neither will say they regret buying the LS, and they haven't beat a path to the trade-in lot either. Lexus is not perfect. Just closer than the competition, that's all. The Pursuit continues!  DrFill
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Replying to: drfill (Jul 31, 2006 4:00 am) Until Lexus turns in JD scores of 0 PP 100, there will be the unlucky few with problems. That said, I've never heard of an SC430 with a broken top, and Ive never seen an LS being taken away on a flat bed. SL, S, care to comment? Didnt think so.
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Replying to: ljflx (Jul 21, 2006 5:44 pm) It is not my habit to respond to such an ancient and dated post as above. But it just turns out that your above assertions are not witty at all but are actually quite serious. Your business proposal above sounds quite opportunistic based on the stats below: 1)Only 19 % of CEOs in USA own a luxury car 2)The Average Price in US$ of the Primary Vehicle driven by a CEO in the USA is $25,000. SOURCE: Cars.com and CareerBuilder.com Based on the stats above I would not be surprised at all if a CEO during 2008 trades in his hybrid Lexus for a significantly improved Prius. I hope you dont mind if I steal your business idea (I have no intention of sharing my profits with you)? I will be starting my concession stand during 2008
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