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High End Luxury Cars

24723 messages,  Last post on Jan 28, 2013 at 6:55 PM

You are in the Sedans Forum.

What is this discussion about? Audi A8, BMW 7 Series, Jaguar XJ-Series, Lexus LS 460, Mercedes-Benz S-Class, Volkswagen Phaeton, Maserati Quattroporte, Mercedes-Benz CL-Class, Sedan



Let's try to define this forum as being limited to luxury performance vehicles where the mainstream version in a typical configuration has an MSRP of at least $60k.

A luxury vehicle with a base price of $59k qualifies because it would typically be bought with some additional equipment, bringing the MSRP over $60k.

Vehicles like the E, 5, A6, M, or GS, even if available in certain versions over $60k, don't qualify because they are cars from companies that have higher end cars in their lineups.

Messages Page 1731 of 2473

#17294 of 24723 Re: Hi Everyone! [ljflx] by dewey

Jul 28, 2006 (8:54 am)

Replying to: ljflx (Jul 28, 2006 7:17 am)
DCX is definitely on the right path.
 
SOURCE: Reuters
 
DCX saw its operating profit in the second quarter rise 11 percent to $2.37 billion USD. The profits were made on the backs of the Mercedes Car Group, which saw its operating profit skyrocket from just $15.3 million a year ago to $1.03 billion in 2Q 2006
 
And what about the USA?
 
SOURCE: link title
 
Mercedes-Benz USA (MBUSA) today reported its highest June on record with sales of 20,802 new vehicles, an increase of 14 percent over last June. This brings MBUSA's year-to-date total to 114,935 new vehicles sold for the best half- year sales in the company's history.
 
Ofcourse MB sales did not grow as fast in the last few years as other luxury marqes. But the whole point is their turnaround is gaining momentum as I had successfully predicted about a year ago . And I would like to humbly point out that every prediction I have made so far in this forum has been 100 percent correct.
 
Chrysler too is on the right track. Let us not forget Chrysler's sexy product pipeline: a new Chrysler Imperial (with those alluring suicide doors), a Sebring that actually sounds like it will be able to sell at dealers' lots and the upcoming Challenger. More fuel efficient models combined with a a greater selection of diesel offerings will help Chyrsler from its dependence on gas guzzling vehicles.
 
Every turnaround has bumps. But at least DCX is moving in the right direction.

#17295 of 24723 Re: Now for the good and not so good news!? [ljflx] by oac

Jul 28, 2006 (10:06 am)

Replying to: ljflx (Jul 28, 2006 7:12 am)
Who do you please - the purists like Merc1 or the investors?
 
Merc1 is not a purist, he's just an idealist ! I don't care how anyone is tuned into the "driving" aspect of a car. No one lives on left-hand turn race tracks, neither do people live on autobahns.... or motor speedways. The real purists don't drive mainstream cars like many of us here do... They drive STi, WRX, M/RS/S, Porsches, Ferraris, Lambos, etc...all with a stick... Those AT AMGs don't count either (except for my fav MB, the E55). Now we are talking purists cos these cars are simply meant to be driven, no pretensions of luxury or fluff about these cars...They have only one purpose in their genre.. However, to use the word "purist" on a HELM board just don't work together... HELM refers to LUXURY MARQUES not sport-tuned sedans which you'd find in the LPS forum... To hear the so-called *purists* on HELM, you'd think that they live on speedways/race tracks... See, reality is that your car drives you from point A to point B, with some comfort, some speed, some handling, some pleasure, thrown in. No single car on this planet gives you EVERYTHING you'd need/want in a car.... Its all about business which provides such driving xteristics. Dr Z is a business man and he understands that lil' reality which I am afraid some Germancarfans struggle with... Its not that hard to grasp, is it ?

#17296 of 24723 Re: Now for the good and not so good news!? [oac] by tagman

Jul 28, 2006 (10:14 am)

Replying to: oac (Jul 28, 2006 10:06 am)
The real purists don't drive mainstream cars like many of us here do... They drive STi, WRX, M/RS/S, Porsches, Ferraris, Lambos, etc...all with a stick... Those AT AMGs don't count either (except for my fav MB, the E55). Now we are talking purists cos these cars are simply meant to be driven, no pretensions of luxury or fluff about these cars...They have only one purpose in their genre.. However, to use the word "purist" on a HELM board just don't work together...
 
hey oac, good to see you've been very busy while I've been away. I'm a little confused about this post, however. Are you saying that there is no such thing as pure luxury? Only pure performance? Why?
 
TagMan

#17297 of 24723 Re: Getting up to speed [tagman] by dewey

Jul 28, 2006 (10:17 am)

Replying to: tagman (Jul 27, 2006 9:59 pm)
noticed that there were some discussions about the purchasing power of LS buyers, and what I found to be interesting was that if they are truly an affluent group, why then do the Lexus buyers seem to have an obsession with resale? Would they actually NOT buy a car they otherwise like because of the mathematics of resale?
 
BINGO!
 
Your observations are dead on. The reason is the LS up to now is not priced like German HELMs but more like German LPS like the 5/E/A6 models. Therefore the LS attracts a different segment of the market . A market that consists of buyers that are more conscious about resale values than in the market for HELMs. Although the future LWB and Hybrid LS models will sell at real HELM prices.
 
I include myself in the above category. I did buy my BMW 530xi Touring because it is IMO the most driveable family wagon out there. But another consideration was BMW resale values (I was quite impressed with the the price I sold my 99 BMW323i).
 
The only HELM auto I would ever consider buying is a Porshce 911 Carrera S. Unfortunately the Carrera S MSRP in Canada is at a 40 percent premium (adjusted for foreign exchange) over over the MSRP in USA.
 
RIP OFF! Pride refuses me to be lured into such a transaction. Nor do I want to go through the hassle of buying a Porsche in USA and confronting duties and warranty issues here in Canada.

#17298 of 24723 Re: Now for the good and not so good news!? [tagman] by oac

Jul 28, 2006 (10:25 am)

Replying to: tagman (Jul 28, 2006 10:14 am)
Are you saying that there is no such thing as pure luxury? Only pure performance? Why?
 
Of course there are LOTS of cars designed solely for pure luxury... Maybach comes to mind. Ergo, others designed purely for performance, and I listed a few already... And there are the abridged ones... call them a "hybrid" and thats what you get mostly on the LPS forum, and to a lower extent here on HELM... That's one of the problems we have on this forum. The cars are designed for LUXURY yet we get all these talk about performance... If you want performance, why are you buying an S-class ? How many S-class buyers/leasee drives the car bcos of its "performance" ? We can talk about attributes of a HELM, but not brow-beat one car for not being a performance leader... These are luxury full-size (family) sedans first !
 
Welcome back ! You are already lifting the quality of the debate within your first 2 posts. I guess "moderation" is a good thing (Howard), eh ?

#17299 of 24723 Re: Getting up to speed [dewey] by ljflx

Jul 28, 2006 (10:48 am)

Replying to: dewey (Jul 28, 2006 10:17 am)
Well do you consider $250K and up affluent? And based on these posts people don't care what happens to their money?? How'd they get it in the first place? People who buy homes care about future money but people who buy cars don't? Now maybe what you are guys are saying is that more German cars are bought by inherited money. Then I can see some validity to your post. If you don't earn it you don't respect and if you do earn it then you do respect it.
 
Now here's what else confuses me - the biggest piece of pride I heard from MB owners (until the past 5 years or so) was how fabulous the resale value of MB's were, in some cases holding 75+% of value after 4 years and 50k miles. Suddenly those same people don't give a hoot? Tag - you've beeen on vacation so I'll give you a break but rethink your post and think about all the MB buyers of the past. On this point, if you really believe it, we are worlds apart, or maybe 90% of the cas are leased so who cares about resale if you are leasing and the lease price is often not much more than an LS or comparable Lexus.

#17300 of 24723 Re: Now for the good and not so good news!? [oac] by tagman

Jul 28, 2006 (10:55 am)

Replying to: oac (Jul 28, 2006 10:25 am)
Welcome back ! You are already lifting the quality of the debate within your first 2 posts. I guess "moderation" is a good thing (Howard), eh ?
 
Thank you. Yes, I saw Howard's reference to my "moderate" posting style. No comment here.
 
Let's take it a step further then . . . are you saying that performance and luxury do not co-exist well enough in the HELM category? At least for a purist, as you define it?
 
TagMan

#17301 of 24723 Re: Now for the good and not so good news!? [tagman] by oac

Jul 28, 2006 (11:31 am)

Replying to: tagman (Jul 28, 2006 10:55 am)
..... are you saying that performance and luxury do not co-exist well enough in the HELM category? At least for a purist, as you define it?
 
Performance AND luxury surely can and do co-exist, that's what I mean by "hybrid" for HELM cars. When these co-exist, there are compromises made by the manufacturer. You can get an upgraded handling over, say a Buick, in an S-class or LS, but not the type of performance you'd get in an M. So we just need to put our debate in perspective and remember that the bias in HELM is to LUXURY not performance. The latter is simply an icing on the cake....
 
Hey, were you not supposed to be out of action until after Labor Day ? Get back to work, and catch up on those gadzillion e-mails awaiting your attention...

#17302 of 24723 Re: Getting up to speed [ljflx] by dewey

Jul 28, 2006 (11:39 am)

Replying to: ljflx (Jul 28, 2006 10:48 am)
People who buy homes care about future money but people who buy cars don't? Now maybe what you are guys are saying is that more German cars are bought by inherited money. Then I can see some validity to your post. If you don't earn it you don't respect and if you do earn it then you do respect it.
 
My business is catered solely to high net worth clients. Most earn their own money (although there are some heirs among them). It is easy to make the generalization you made above but I can assure you there are quite a few high earning non-heirs who drive expensive German cars.
At the same time many of my clients dont even own a HELM. In other words what I am trying to say is that the fine art of pigeon-holing HELM buyers is an endeavor that involves more subjectivity than objectivity. Especially when there are no statistics that show what cars the "old rich" versus the "nouveau rich" own.
 
A house is quite different from a car. Among my clients I dont know anybody who is motivated by resale values before buying a car(luxury or non-luxury). Except certain individuals in this forum (including myself)

#17303 of 24723 Re: Getting up to speed [ljflx] by oac

Jul 28, 2006 (11:39 am)

Replying to: ljflx (Jul 28, 2006 10:48 am)
Excellent points, Len. When you gross $200K+ in income, and you drive an LS, you must be unable to afford an S-class ! That's what I read from these kind of posts... Let's see, at $90K for an S550, you can probably lease one for the $1400 range (not exact # here, but roughly speaking). So at an income bracket north of $200K, this is going to send you to the poor-house ? Puleaze !
 
And now we must believe that Germancarfans who own an S-class could care less about resale values of their German automobiles... Talk about living in fantasy La La land ! Without good resale values, luxury cruisers are doomed to failure. Just ask Jaguar... even Audi to some extent... The strength of leasing is partly that the car will resell well after the leasing period, otherwise you or the leasing company eat the difference. Someone must pay for that resale value calculation/miscalculation in leases.... Meaning EVERYONE cares about resale - buyers/leasees and sellers/lessors...

Messages Page 1731 of 2473

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