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High End Luxury Cars

24723 messages,  Last post on Jan 28, 2013 at 6:55 PM

You are in the Sedans Forum.

What is this discussion about? Audi A8, BMW 7 Series, Jaguar XJ-Series, Lexus LS 460, Mercedes-Benz S-Class, Volkswagen Phaeton, Maserati Quattroporte, Mercedes-Benz CL-Class, Sedan



Let's try to define this forum as being limited to luxury performance vehicles where the mainstream version in a typical configuration has an MSRP of at least $60k.

A luxury vehicle with a base price of $59k qualifies because it would typically be bought with some additional equipment, bringing the MSRP over $60k.

Vehicles like the E, 5, A6, M, or GS, even if available in certain versions over $60k, don't qualify because they are cars from companies that have higher end cars in their lineups.

Messages Page 1711 of 2473

#17099 of 24723 Re: Lexus , Hybrids, Prius... [ljflx] by merc1

Jul 22, 2006 (4:47 pm)

Replying to: ljflx (Jul 22, 2006 3:28 pm)
You're missing the point/connection here, which is hybrids. Of course a C-Class has nothing to do with an S-Class buyer's habbits. There is no connection between that scenario and the Prius and the LS600h. No one is saying (or at least I'm not) that the LS600h buyer is going to drop down to a Prius as a replacement for a 100K Lexus, we all know that. The point that Dewey and Designman are trying to make is that the hybrid tech in the 2009 Prius might just make the LS600h look a little outdated to greenies who live for this type of product. IMO, it is all about perception which is a big part of hybrid's appeal since they don't appear to be the heaven sent answer to better fuel economy as some predicted. Anyone spending potentially 100K on a super-hybrid isn't going to want to find out that a Prius makes it obsolete tech wise, that is all I think they're trying to say here.
 
Think of it this way regarding Mercedes, do you think S-Class buyers would feel cheated if the all-new 2008 C-Class debuted MB's hybrid tech instead of the S-Class? Of course they would and most people would be scratching their heads as to why MB would choose their least expensive car to show its most advanced tehnology. Same thing with the Prius vs. the LS600h, if and only if the next Prius does meet all those lofty engineering goals.
 
Who knows what will happen in such a scenario between the next Prius and the LS600h, of course the LS600h buyer can likely just end the rigamarole and buy both! I for one don't think it will matter sales wise because the two cars are so far apart in the market, but the mental like is there because of Toyota wearing hybrids on their sleeve.
 
M

#17100 of 24723 Re: Tesla Roadster [pat] by designman

Jul 22, 2006 (6:04 pm)

Replying to: pat (Jul 22, 2006 9:35 am)
That car is cool. I want one. At twice the efficiency of the most efficient hybrid, this could be one of the cars that the privileged greenies hitchhike onto... equivalent to 125 mpg. And they claim a 0-60 of 4.0. Whe-ew! Downside is it handcuffs long-range travel plans, needing a 3.5 hour charge after 250 miles. But come to think of it, I’ve never taken my roadster on a long-range trip and neither have many others.
 
They also have intentions of making a sedan. Who knows, with backing by the Google founders, Lotus handling and warm acceptance, we could see a new star in the mix—pure electric performance. I hope it’s easy to get at least a test drive out of this baby.
 
I’d like to know what they know and Toyota doesn’t. This is all about batteries which are outsourced. Could it be that battery tech has made big strides in such a short time and that Toyota’s hybrid manufacturing and marketing inertia precludes them from committing to pure electric?
 
Interesting stuff.
 
Check out the Tesla site which is nice 'n clean and pretty cool itself:
http://www.teslamotors.com/

#17101 of 24723 Hemi by drfill

Jul 22, 2006 (6:31 pm)

Lets overlook the obvious reasons.
 
   1. The HUGE spike in power.
  
   2. The HUGE upgrade in looks, rivaling, if not exceeding, the vaunted S-Class.
  
   3. The HUGE increase in speed, appeal and efficiency brought on by an 8-speed tranny
 
   I just think it's time to "Move Forward". Playing the background to cars it is as good, or in most cases, better than, hurts the car's, and the marque's, prestige.
 
   You hear Merc throw the lower price up in EVERY, not some, but EVERY post of his!
  
   Lexus has hedged it's bet long enough.
 
   I have stood next to both cars, at the same time.
 
   I see no reason to "Check" at this table. I'd raise, on more than just power, features, size, and looks.
  
   Correct price strategy:
 
   $67-83k: LS460 SWB
  
   $72-88k: LS460 LWB (Where S550 starts)
 
   $92-99k: LS600h (Limited Availability - 2000 Units for 2008)
 
   Lexus will win either way it goes. But you can't be prestigious and underpriced at the same time. If you think you are the best, act as if. That's my motto.
 
   I can't exactly find many errors in Lexus' market strategy. Just conservative, for my tastes. And I have an issue if they intend to build on 300k units of volume a year. I think it's at 328k for 2005. Need to bring that down. The amount of volume only proves that demand exceeds supply/price!
    
   DrFill

#17102 of 24723 Re: Lexus , Hybrids, Prius... [merc1] by oac

Jul 22, 2006 (8:07 pm)

Replying to: merc1 (Jul 22, 2006 4:47 pm)
The point that Dewey and Designman are trying to make is that the hybrid tech in the 2009 Prius might just make the LS600h look a little outdated to greenies who live for this type of product...
 
And the point Len is making is that 600hL buyers don't give a hoot what the Prius is/does/does not... The Prius was novel 4 years ago, now its mainstream... the 600hL is something else... And I buy that argument as well. Heck, why should a '08 600hL owner worry that an '09 Prius gets 100mpg ? Is the 600hL all about MPG ? Geez ! Get a new argument and stop beating a non-starter. About the only thing remotely similar b/w a Prius and a 600hL is that they both have an electric motor, and there the comparison ends... Oh, both have 4 doors, 4 wheels and a body-on-frame design...
 
Next...

#17103 of 24723 Re: I Read..... [merc1] by oac

Jul 22, 2006 (8:14 pm)

Replying to: merc1 (Jul 22, 2006 4:37 pm)
You can't have it both ways, one minute say the LS is priced like a E-Class or 5-Series then the next the battle is with the S-Class, lets try to get it together.
 
And once again we have to remind you Merc1, that PRICE is but one factor ! Need we list you the features this new LS series will come with ? Not really cos you know them so well too... But more importantly, the LOWER price of the LS is bcos of efficiency of production, the HIGHER price of the S is bcos of the inefficiency of its production system. Give or take... if MB could make their S with the TPS efficiency, they'd price it right as well. Bottom line is the S is overpriced for what you get, unless you are simply buying the 3-pointed star on the hood. What's that worth today ? $20 - 30K premium over the LS ???? Guess we'll see how the S sales hold up when the new LS gets here... even with the S450 in tow and the Bluetec diesel models not that far behind...
 
The days of a single LS battling a myriad of S-class models is almost over. The LS series will have more variants and SWB/LWB trims to compete against its German peers. And if you can get all of what the LS series delivers at rock bottom prices, why won't it continue its class-leading sales domination over its peers ?

#17104 of 24723 Re: Lexus , Hybrids, Prius... [oac] by lexusguy

Jul 22, 2006 (8:45 pm)

Replying to: oac (Jul 22, 2006 8:07 pm)
Oh, both have 4 doors, 4 wheels and a body-on-frame design...
 
Actually no. The only body-on-frame cars left that I'm aware of are the Crown Vic\Grand Marquis dinosaurs.

#17105 of 24723 Re: Dewey makes a good point [designman] by dewey

Jul 22, 2006 (8:51 pm)

Replying to: designman (Jul 22, 2006 6:13 am)
You know how they say no athlete is bigger than the game? Well, at this early stage in the hybrid epoch, no car is bigger than the technology.
 
Designman,
 
who would think that two BMW fans and evan a Mercedes fan would defend one of the blandest driving Toyotas on the roads today?
 
The Tesla roadster? Impressive indeed. But as mentioned in that Washington Post article :
 
Why not just buy a Lotus Elise and use some of the $40,000+ you save to buy some gas?"
 
And 10k more if you dont live in a select few States. Ouch!!
 
Oh yes it's not all about saving gas. But if that is the case then why not just buy an Elise and donate the rest of the $40K savings to an environmentalist cause.
 
I guess there will be quite a few who will buy the Tesla because it is a one of a kind sports car like no other. I cant argue with that since that is the main reason why many people buy sports cars in the first place.
 

#17106 of 24723 Re: Hemi [drfill] by oac

Jul 22, 2006 (9:58 pm)

Replying to: drfill (Jul 22, 2006 6:31 pm)
Lexus has hedged it's bet long enough.
  
   I have stood next to both cars, at the same time.
  
   I see no reason to "Check" at this table. I'd raise, on more than just power, features, size, and looks.
 
119+ yrs of brand v 17 yrs of brand... that's why ! Slow and steady wins the race.. The LS price will creep up, and with the different models, you'll finally see an LS sedan priced in the mid-80K and up. That is a far-cry from the past 17 years of $72K top ceiling for the UL.
 
You cannot fault Toyota/Lexus strategy. It is the stuff of legends, so gotta wait and watch as the strategy unfolds... Its scary if you stop to think of it.

#17107 of 24723 Re: Lexus , Hybrids, Prius... [oac] by ljflx

Jul 23, 2006 (8:26 am)

Replying to: oac (Jul 22, 2006 8:07 pm)
"And the point Len is making is that 600hL buyers don't give a hoot what the Prius is/does/does not..."
 
Exactly. As well, the 600HL car will be heavily leased so the risk will be on Lexus anyway which is still another reason why any Lexus buyer of the car, on top of the obvious reasons, will not give a hoot. Then on the next go round he'll take the updated battery and get 500HP with 35-40mpg at the same price as the original purchase. If you use the argument noted here than there'd be no such thing as an early adopter of technology. What the early adopter here will look at is a high HP car that is green and is loaded with phenomenal luxury and techmology vs it's real competition - a gas car that gets a gas guzzler tax and costs more - a lot more in some cases - and retains less value on resale.

#17108 of 24723 Re: Lexus , Hybrids, Prius... [merc1] by nvbanker

Jul 23, 2006 (12:48 pm)

Replying to: merc1 (Jul 22, 2006 12:43 pm)
"Isn't there a LS430 owner on here that has a Prius also? Could have sworn there was."
 
Certainly isn't me, Merc... I am not a hybrid fan yet.

Messages Page 1711 of 2473

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