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High End Luxury Cars

24723 messages,  Last post on Jan 28, 2013 at 6:55 PM

You are in the Sedans Forum.

What is this discussion about? Audi A8, BMW 7 Series, Jaguar XJ-Series, Lexus LS 460, Mercedes-Benz S-Class, Volkswagen Phaeton, Maserati Quattroporte, Mercedes-Benz CL-Class, Sedan



Let's try to define this forum as being limited to luxury performance vehicles where the mainstream version in a typical configuration has an MSRP of at least $60k.

A luxury vehicle with a base price of $59k qualifies because it would typically be bought with some additional equipment, bringing the MSRP over $60k.

Vehicles like the E, 5, A6, M, or GS, even if available in certain versions over $60k, don't qualify because they are cars from companies that have higher end cars in their lineups.

Messages Page 1688 of 2473

#16863 of 24723 Re: Merc is back.... [ljflx] by merc1

Jun 28, 2006 (10:36 pm)

Replying to: ljflx (Jun 28, 2006 7:20 am)
The joke here was that someone would think the LS handles as good as the S-Class. Some just couldn't accept the truth about the matter so they went elsewhere....
 
The German carfans here often deride Lexus as if a German car owner wouldn't be caught dead behind of the wheel of one - after all they call it a majestic Buick or something that is very distasteful to a typical German car buyer. But the fact is a very high percentage of Lexus owners were (or also still are) German lux owners - and that negates so much of this whole handling argument.
 
Again you're talking about one car the LS430 which has done most of the converting over the years. Those former MB owners that drive a LS aren't driving one because its superior performance or anything even remotely pertaining to styling or other carlike things, they switched because MB dropped the ball in reliability and they saw the Lexus as a better value. So please spare us this about most Lexus owners being former MB owners because that likely isn't the majority of LS owners and it certainly isn't the case brand-wise. The majority of other Lexus model owners are from Japanese brands who moved up.
 
MB styling is going downhill fast. They lost Buno and it shows - badly.
 
Interesting since "Brunno" (don't know who Buno is) has been gone since 1999! Every Mercedes introduced since (basically everything in their current lineup) has nothing to do with him, so you're telling me they all look bad now?
 
M

#16864 of 24723 Re: Official Mercedes CL600 photos [garyh1] by merc1

Jun 28, 2006 (10:39 pm)

Replying to: garyh1 (Jun 28, 2006 7:25 am)
Of course, all of this is just IMHO. Different strokes for different folks.
 
Exactly because I see nothing wrong with the new CL. I remember the same tone when the S came out, but then most changed their tune after seeing it in person. Pretty bad if we've got to go down to talking about dash vents IMO.
 
M

#16865 of 24723 Re: Official Mercedes CL600 photos [merc1] by garyh1

Jun 29, 2006 (12:38 am)

Replying to: merc1 (Jun 28, 2006 10:39 pm)
Pretty bad if we've got to go down to talking about dash vents IMO.
 
Apparently you just don't get the point of my discussion of design. Re-read my two posts on the subject and I think you will see I talked about much more than just the vents, but I did mention them in (my apparently vain) attempt to give you something specific to look at that made my point very obviously and graphically. If the vents don't help you understand my point, then look at the outside mirrors (how unuseful is it to have the mirrors reduce down to a narrow point at the end where you need them to be wide to be able to see what is behind and to the side of you?).
 
You know, Merc, you certainly are entitled to disagree with me - especially in subjective matters of aesthetics - but how about explaining why you think it is "gorgeous", instead of just calling my posts shameful and "pretty bad".

#16866 of 24723 Re: Official Mercedes CL600 photos [garyh1] by merc1

Jun 29, 2006 (1:05 am)

Replying to: garyh1 (Jun 29, 2006 12:38 am)
Well let me say that I wasn't calling your post shameful or anything like that, I was just messing with you Gary. Saying like "shame on you for not liking the car" sorry if you took it seriously.
 
I understood fully what you were talking about as far as the design of the car relative to Mercedes' previous designs. Exterior wise Mercedes' previous staid look of broad expanses of sheetmetal and stark detailing is what you're referring to no? Sure they've altered that look somewhat with their latest generation of cars, but this about them doing something different for the sake of doing so is where I don't see what you're talking about. If anything the new CL harks back to the old SEC coupes from the W126 80's S-Class.
 

 
The front of the new CL is nearly identical to/or a modern version of this and the wheel arches work much better on the coupe than they do the sedan because there is no rear door on the Coupe to throw them off. They kept the previous CL's stunning roofline, pillarless design, and fancy back glass also.
 
The new CL design works better than the new S-Class does IMO. Mercedes has managed to keep the best aspects of the previous CL, while looking to the past (SEC), and bringing it all into the future, IMO.
 
There is a clear and careful evolution going on here, nothing really brash beyond the wheel arches. See here. Pic
 
If the vents don't help you understand my point, then look at the outside mirrors (how unuseful is it to have the mirrors reduce down to a narrow point at the end where you need them to be wide to be able to see what is behind and to the side of you?).
 
This about dash vents and mirrors I find to be pretty much reaching, IMO. That about the dash vents we'll have to agree to disagree on. About the mirrors, I don't see how you would know whether or not the mirrors do their job or not without having seen the car in person yet. That mirror design is nearly common throughout the MB lineup and I don't see anyone complaining that they can't see out of them. Mercedes' mirrors run on the large side anyway an MB would never compromise their function for the sake of style.
 
Also, the previous criticism by some that you couldn't tell which Mercedes was coming towards you because the CLK, CL, C-Class hatchback and SL all wore the same face has been done away with with this new CL. It wears a proper (or classic SEC) top of the line MB Coupe face.
 
M

#16867 of 24723 Re: Official Mercedes CL600 photos [merc1] by lexusguy

Jun 29, 2006 (1:58 am)

Replying to: merc1 (Jun 29, 2006 1:05 am)
The new CL design works better than the new S-Class does IMO. Mercedes has managed to keep the best aspects of the previous CL, while looking to the past (SEC), and bringing it all into the future, IMO.
 
I like the CL better than the S-class as well, both exterior and interior wise. The only thing that really bugs me about it is Mercedes' steering wheel design in these cars. It looks like a giant fanny pack, with stubby little legs coming out of the bottom.

#16868 of 24723 Re: Official Mercedes CL600 photos [lexusguy] by merc1

Jun 29, 2006 (2:06 am)

Replying to: lexusguy (Jun 29, 2006 1:58 am)
The only thing that really bugs me about it is Mercedes' steering wheel design in these cars. It looks like a giant fanny pack, with stubby little legs coming out of the bottom.
 
There is that vivid wording again...lol! Youch.
 
M

#16869 of 24723 Re: Merc is back.... [merc1] by ljflx

Jun 29, 2006 (7:34 am)

Replying to: merc1 (Jun 28, 2006 10:36 pm)
"Again you're talking about one car the LS430 which has done most of the converting over the years. Those former MB owners that drive a LS aren't driving one because its superior performance or anything even remotely pertaining to styling or other carlike things"
 
So when they tell me the LS is the best car they've ever driven or had, they are either hallucinating, fibbing or maybe you just don't have a clue about how 95-99% of drivers evaluate a car. I don't doubt your vision of what a pure enthusiast wants but I seriously doubt you give proper evaluation to what just about every other driver is looking for. BTW many of these people also have moved to the RX, the GX, the LX, the GS, have picked up an ES for their spouse and now an IS (or SC) for kids or as a toy. But keep on thinking it's only the LS doing the job if that is what you want to think.

#16870 of 24723 Re: Official Mercedes CL600 photos [merc1] by lexusguy

Jun 29, 2006 (8:32 am)

Replying to: merc1 (Jun 29, 2006 2:06 am)
I just call it as I see it I think that wheel my actually be worse than my previous all time least favorite Benz wheel, this vintage '98 model.
 

#16871 of 24723 More on JDP by blkhemi

Jun 29, 2006 (2:35 pm)

I know this subject is long in the tooth, but I've gotta tell this one. I've finally come to the summation that these tests are flat out useless: Case and point:
 
The '06 Pontiac Grand Prix was just awarded the best car in the large car segment for both Initial Quality and Longevity. Yep, that's right. Even over everybodys's favorite, the new Avalon. The Ford Five Hundred scored at the bottom, and the Hyundai Azera was up there with the GP. The Ford big boys(Crown Vic and Grand Marq) scored horridly worst than previous years. The Buick Lucerne was second behind the GP.
 
This corelates in the HELM segment because with all of this talk about which is better based on mere tests is not worth it. It didn't help matters more that the GP's factory is also rated tops. MB, Audi, Lexus etc. etc. These companies build some of the best autos on the planet. But judging from the weightless tests, they're nothing. I have to say that I'll never look at these tests the same again.

#16872 of 24723 Re: More on JDP [blkhemi] by designman

Jun 29, 2006 (4:22 pm)

Replying to: blkhemi (Jun 29, 2006 2:35 pm)
Here are the top ten in their APEAL study which came out yesterday:
 
1 – Porsche
2 – BMW
3 – Mercedes
4 – Lexus
5 – Infiniti
6 – Audi
7 – Jaguar
8 – Land Rover
9 – Mini
10 – Acura
 
http://www.jdpower.com/corporate/news/releases/pressrelease.asp?ID=2006100

Messages Page 1688 of 2473

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