Last post on Jan 28, 2013 at 5:55 PM
You are in the Sedans
What is this discussion about?
Audi A8, BMW 7 Series, Jaguar XJ-Series, Lexus LS 460, Mercedes-Benz S-Class, Volkswagen Phaeton, Maserati Quattroporte, Mercedes-Benz CL-Class, Sedan
Let's try to define this forum as being limited to luxury performance vehicles where the mainstream version in a typical configuration has an MSRP of at least $60k.
A luxury vehicle with a base price of $59k qualifies because it would typically be bought with some additional equipment, bringing the MSRP over $60k.
Vehicles like the E, 5, A6, M, or GS, even if available in certain versions over $60k, don't qualify because they are cars from companies that have higher end cars in their lineups.
#16608 of 24726 Re: What makes one car "BETTER" than another? [topspin628]
Jun 19, 2006 (10:09 pm)
Very good post. The only thing I disagree with is:
Lexus is plain and simply, the best quality you can buy as far as reliability and the way it's screwed together.
Reliability yes, but the build part no. Any Audi and several newer Mercedes are built as good or better than any Lexus as far as their physical build. Audi in particular is often called the standard in that area. The new S-Class is built much better than the W220 was, especially the 2000-2002 models.
Other than that little detail I agree with what you've said.
#16609 of 24726 Re: Many LS buyers can NOT afford or choose an S-Class [hpowders]
Jun 19, 2006 (10:14 pm)
That's where I don't get Oac's jealousy claim against the Euros:
All S-Class buyers can buy an LS, but not all LS buyers can afford an S-Class.
I think he's got this jealousy thing backward
Yes, definitely. A new Lexus can't be talked about unless Mercedes is mentioned as being the car to be destroyed. This charge about jealousy is really something.
#16610 of 24726 Re: Many LS buyers can NOT afford or choose an S-Class [tagman]
Jun 19, 2006 (10:17 pm)
Thanks for re-wording what I've been saying all along. Price matters one minute here and then the next it doesn't. Just like status, number of gears, or 0-60 times. If Lexus has the advantage then it is seen as a major selling point, but if it one of the Euros, nope.
#16611 of 24726 Re: Selection is a good thing , not bad [tagman]
Jun 19, 2006 (10:25 pm)
Yeah I didn't get that one either. Lexus has nothing on the order of "personalization" of MB,BMW or Audi yet it is brought up here concerning Lexus. The fact that Mercedes offers so many choices has been one of the reasons they've been so highly regarded all these years. What does an LS buyer do after they've had a 1/2 dozen LSs? There is no coupe or roadster at Lexus that equals the LS like there is a Mercedes. There are no performance models, no 4-seat cabriolets, sports cars? Nothing. Even Cadillac provides more choice now. Lexus is all sedans and suvs at the moment and that is the only reason why this about having too many models is a problem, because Lexus doesn't have anything to compare.
Before you arrived here Tagman there was a knock on MB/BMW/Audi/Jaguar about them making all their cars look alike. It was seen as a "problem" for the C to look like the S and the front of the SL to look like the front of the CLK, but since Lexus has now (finally) adopted the same policy by making all their cars look more or less alike, the IS and LS, but in different sizes like the C & S were, its all good now. This about the having too many models too with fall by the wayside after Lexus gets done flushing out their lineup. That about having more models is definitely just a nit-pic for the sake of doing so underlined by the fact that Lexus is going the same route really exposes that claim for what really it is.
#16612 of 24726 Re: What makes one car "BETTER" than another? [topspin628]
Jun 20, 2006 (4:13 am)
Now there’s a Lexus post I can relate to… no rose-colored glasses, no bluster, not an ounce of fat… it plays to the LS's strong points and is probably a perfect example of why many buy an LS.
#16613 of 24726 Re: Merc [killerbunny]
Jun 20, 2006 (4:14 am)
The "handling" card can only be played to a certain extend. The LS may not be the best handling in its class, but it does not need to be.
I agree, and that’s the point Lexicans should stick with. Instead, some of them try to score points with handling only to get trumped. It’s like the average Joe thinking he can hit a Mariano Rivera fastball. After all it’s pretty obvious what Lexus is successful with. When a Lexus buyer says he doesn’t like a teeth-chattering ride, he prefers the softer luxury ride, this is what I respect and there’s nothing to debate. The problem is when they get greedy in these discussions and go outside the area of Lexus product benefits. I don’t know who they think they are fooling. They can’t win a performance argument and they shouldn’t even try.
The LS is a pure luxury car. We need to respect the differences in these vehicles.
Jun 20, 2006 (4:18 am)
This talk of tires is way off the mark. You can’t just put on low-profile tires and say a car handles good. The entire suspension has to have the proper components in the way of struts, shocks, springs, sway bars, rigid chassis and frame, balance and proper wheel alignment settings—caster, camber, toe angles. In addition, the steering should have a lower numerical ratio so it is responsive. Lexus suspension and steering are tuned for the luxury ride which is soft.
The Legacy GT was mention recently and this is a perfect example of how low-profile tires on a car with soft suspension do not do the trick. It’s like an obese person expecting a pair of sneakers to work wonders for him. I mean, there are other things to be concerned about, the least of which are the shoes.
I don't like low-profile tires anyway. The old BMWs and Porsches had 15 inch wheels and I would think they still outhandle many of today's stars. Even the track rats are shunning the extreme low profiles. There is a point of diminishing returns. I think today's wheels and tires are more about bling. The Conestoga wagon look is in.
#16615 of 24726 Re: There are risks and there are RISKS [tagman]
Jun 20, 2006 (4:44 am)
Better get prepared for Jeopardy.
If they let me google and allow two minutes for each question I might have a shot.
#16616 of 24726 Good old summer vacation.
Jun 20, 2006 (5:48 am)
Just a few more hours and . . . I'm outta here! . . . for a month . . . on a rather isolated summer vacation.
Anyone with treatment advise for forum withdrawal? . . . it would be greatly appreciated.
I'll look forward to catching up on all your posts upon my return around July 20th. So . . . until that time . . . have a great July 4th . . . and please take care of yourselves and your loved ones.
The primary vehicle I will drive while on vacation? . . . ahh yes . . . a boat.
#16617 of 24726 Re: Good old summer vacation. [tagman]
Jun 20, 2006 (6:12 am)
No withdrawal necessary if you take a laptop with you.
Enjoy your vacation!
Merc will serve as Air Europe Commander in your absence.