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Sedans High End Luxury Cars
24700 messages, Last post on Dec 01, 2009 at 12:24 PM
You are in the Sedans Forum. Your Hosts are pat & karens
Let's try to define this forum as being limited to luxury performance vehicles where the mainstream version in a typical configuration has an MSRP of at least $60k.
A luxury vehicle with a base price of $59k qualifies because it would typically be bought with some additional equipment, bringing the MSRP over $60k.
Vehicles like the E, 5, A6, M, or GS, even if available in certain versions over $60k, don't qualify because they are cars from companies that have higher end cars in their lineups.
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Replying to: merc1 (Jun 15, 2006 8:34 pm) Let's ask this again: What exactly do you guys constantly harp on as "performance" ? is this about suspension setup, steering and/or road feedback, speed, or what ?? You also add "handling"... Is the MB better at handling than an LS ? And sayz who ? Is the MB a better performance car than the LS ? Sayz who. The last comparo of record was the MT Dec 2003 report for MY2004 releases. The LS430 won that comparo, while the S430 came dead last... or close to last. And pls note that the S didn't come last despite its better performance against the LS.... I guess its easy to always throw the "performance" and "handling" shpeel out there as things German cars are always better than Japanese cars... It's simply become an acceptable fact to be announced everytime whether its actually true or not. I have yet to read of an LS that tipped over taking a corner way too fast bcos its handling was terrible. Does the LS430's 278HP not best the S430's 275HP ? Always.... Put a Z-rated shoe on the LS with the Euro suspension, and pit it against an S with dynamic suspension and the crap on it, and let's see which car outshines the other. I am sure none here has done this test, so pls, don't harp on performance and handling and drive like the MB is a Ferrari. If mainstream MBs are that, why the need for an AMG setup ? Many buyers don't give a "flying leap" about all this dependability/reliablity superiority that Lexus defenders constantly harp about it, if they MB/BMW/Audi wouldn't be able to sell cars, and they all do it for more money on top of that... Hmmmm ! The likes of JDP, CR, etc are mere nuisance in the industry then, eh ? If buyers and auto execs don't care about what these companies provide, why do they even exist ??? They must not serve any need in the business, right? I'll let you answer that one....
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Replying to: oac (Jun 16, 2006 2:34 pm) What the German car fans are saying is there a certain exhilarating experience (performance, handling) that the German cars give them. They don't find that in a vehicle such as a Lexus. There's nothing wrong with that. What the Lexus fans are saying is that they prefer the comfort and reliability of the Toyota brand. They don't find those things in the German cars. There's nothing wrong with that either. It's a very good thing that all of these vehicles are available for everyone to choose the one that pleases the most. It doesn't really matter why someone has a particular set of preferences - it's just the way it is and of course we're all entitled to our own priorities. I think we should discuss the merits of all the vehicles we include in this category until the cows come home (or longer), but beating each other over the head trying to change each other's mind is not only totally fruitless, it's also very tired, old and unproductive ... 
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Oac, I'm not just addressing that to you, I'm addressing it to all the usual suspects. 
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Replying to: oac (Jun 16, 2006 2:34 pm) TagMan
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Replying to: tagman (Jun 16, 2006 3:10 pm) I just genuinely don't understand how/why you folks repeatedly need to go after each other trying to make each other change perspectives - for years and years, now. It ain't a-gonna happen.  But go for it. I'll go back to living in the walls. 
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Replying to: pat (Jun 16, 2006 3:20 pm) I'll do my best to answer. Here's what you just posted: I just genuinely don't understand how/why you folks repeatedly need to go after each other trying to make each other change perspectives - for years and years, now. The idea of trying to change each other's minds isn't the entire goal, but for those posters that are open-minded enough, over the years, opinions will change. Some never will, but that's OK, too. Also, there are folks that basically only READ the posts, and they get to see the back and forth debate, which illuminates BOTH sides of the coin. It is a HEALTHY exchange, typically, and only when it gets deeply insulting is it not. Also, the landscape is constantly changing. This recent discussion about Audi is a terrific example. In the last few years, look at what is happening to Audi. Just in the last months, Mercedes now has a new S-Class. This is BIG, since it represents the single best-selling HELM in the WORLD. And just look at Lexus. They are poised for another leap as they are about to unleash an entire new LS. Very significant indeed. Worthy of passionate discussion. The debate will go on and on, and the real world is changing. To debate it all is half the fun. To have a "tea and crackers" discussion about the heavyweight cars is just not realistic. Too much passion here for that, I'm afraid. My recommendation, if I may? Unless the topic strays WAY off for much TOO long about the wrong things (I know it always will a little), just let it go. Unless it gets NASTY, also just let it go. I have seen it self-correct itself most of the time. Most all of these posters are great guys with good intentions. I hope I haven't gone too far here. And I know you have the best intentions at heart here, and I do believe you'll KNOW when it is time to step in. ONE more thing . . . I think it would be cool for you to express YOUR ideas about cars more often. I already know you like the Quattroporte. Warmly and Respectfully, TagMan
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Replying to: tagman (Jun 16, 2006 3:44 pm) I do.  I told you, I've gone back to living in the walls now. I was just saying some things I keep thinking, that's all - but I meant what I said in my subsequent post - have whatever conversation you need to have.
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Replying to: pat (Jun 16, 2006 3:53 pm) Let me take it one step further. Instead of "living in the walls" and occasionally emerging as referee or police, please jump in more often with some of your opinions about the CARS, which are just as valid as anyone elses here. Against the rules? TagMan |
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