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Sedans High End Luxury Cars
24700 messages, Last post on Dec 01, 2009 at 12:24 PM
You are in the Sedans Forum. Your Hosts are pat & karens
Let's try to define this forum as being limited to luxury performance vehicles where the mainstream version in a typical configuration has an MSRP of at least $60k.
A luxury vehicle with a base price of $59k qualifies because it would typically be bought with some additional equipment, bringing the MSRP over $60k.
Vehicles like the E, 5, A6, M, or GS, even if available in certain versions over $60k, don't qualify because they are cars from companies that have higher end cars in their lineups.
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Replying to: blkhemi (Jun 15, 2006 1:47 pm) Audi, if you build it, they will come!! It (the A7) is surely gorgeous, and there were other pics on that site. I imagine you've seen them all by now. Personally, I like it much better than the CLS. My wish to Audi . . . send a gorgeous sports car to our market. TagMan
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I'm not trying to sound superior. My point is to point out the fundamental difference in mind set/priorities between the German/Japanese customer. I think Hpowers said it best when he pointed it out that Cyclone4 didn't even mention performance. If it helps, I do think that Lexus is more sophisticated a car than Buick but, FWIW I never mentioned Buick, That was the good Mr.Tagman. Again FWIW for me reliablility would comes as a lower priority than performance. Something that Lexus does well. I can live with some glitches to have a car drive a certain way that I feel appropriate. We can agree to disagree I suppose, didn't mean to push any buttons.
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Replying to: cyclone4 (Jun 15, 2006 11:55 am) I generally have a history of being fairly objective in my views of Mercedes and Lexus, and the other marques as well. But as I've said, it is not reasonable to have Lexus fans take massive amounts of credit for even the smallest things, and totally deny Mercedes the credit it deserves, and to further insult the Mercedes marque by trying to deny its heritage and history, and to ignore the value of its status and prestige, as though they no longer have any merit. They all do. There are MANY factors, not just the ones that Lexus is good at. The ones that Lexus is NOT historically good at matter too. So, it is ridiculaous to suddenly ban heritage or prestige, to infer that style is not that big a deal, or to dilute the standards for performance as though going quickly in a straight line is adequate. (THAT was why I used the Buick analogy, hope I didn't insult anyone). It seems reasonable that reliability is not EVERYTHING. Those other factors and performance do matter, IMO. I think you know what I am saying, here. TagMan
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Replying to: oac (Jun 15, 2006 11:32 am) Lets go trough the list one more time. Interior ergonomics – MB is a clear winner. Some might not like it at the first glance but after spending time in the car, you will understand how much better it is then anything from Japan. In terms of technology - MB is an innovator, unfortunately it does reflected on reliability, but Like Tagman stated MB clear winner. Lexus simply uses proven technology and it work in their favor in terms of reliability, but not in terms of Technological enhancements. New LS might change that, but again hybrid technology was tasted on other Toyota models and not an innovation at this point. Even Acura, without having presence in the HELM sector, was by far more involved in breakthrough technology. Not having any new technology to break, does not make Lexus a winner. Safety – MB would win this category as well but both cars are safe enough for a tie. Performance- clearly go to MB. Prestige – MB. Styling – subjective, but I think most will agree that MB is a winner. Price – Lexus. However if you look at the value, depending on your preferences, S class can be the best value on the market. In one of the reviews I think in R&T it won heads up campro with Rolls-Royce Phantom. No one in the right state of mind will compare LS to Phantom, don’t you think? After all, $150K 911 Turbo considered, by many, the best value on the market. I bet you thought it was Hyundai SonataJ S class is not only the better car by a mile, it also a better value and it’s 30K more expensive. Oak, I know you will probably disagree. However if you do, can you provide some explanation for your logic. Tagman clearly stated as why MB superior to Lexus, you on the other hand did not. One more thought, I might be out of line here, but I think that new LS looks similar to previous S class, which is a good thing. |
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Replying to: tagman (Jun 15, 2006 2:21 pm) Mercedes nevertheless builds fine cars because it still does well in many other helm criteria besides reliability. |
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Replying to: tagman (Jun 15, 2006 1:55 pm) And did you say sports car from Audi? Then the magic genie has just granted your wish: R8 and new TT(coupe, Cab, and hopefully the Shooting Brake). With the R8, you'll be able to get anything from a 3.6L V-6/DSG to a 5.0L V10/stick or DSG and a 6.5L V-12/stick or DSG(thank Heavens they opted against the cruel Lambo E-gear) with over 600hp, probably a smidge less than the Murcielago, for obvious reasons. That V-12 will also make it's way into the next gen A8's by virtue of smaller displacement(6.2L), but still with over 600-hp and with the engine sitting completely behind the front axle line, for improved handling and by virtue of the more complex but more compact 9-Speed autobox and DSG's. |
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We've got a world-class, 5-on-5, HELM Finals, right here! And here are your starting lineups: Air Europe: Merc Hpowders Tagman Designman BlkHemi Vs. Team Lexus Ljflx DrFill Oac LexusGuy Stevehilburn Cyclone (6th Man award-winner!) DrFill |
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1. I like Audi. They make some very appealing, premium automobiles. But they are not on Lexus' level in the US. Not even really close. 1a. I don't remember saying Audi isn't a HELM. I DO remember saying they are not a 1st-tier HELM. Big difference. 2. Mercedes is the standard in HELM automobiles, and I have the utmost respect for their heritage, and current lineup. I do believe they are Lexus' only legitimate competition, since they both make luxury-first cars/trucks, and is incredibly formidable. I see Ali-Frazier. But Mercedes has learned to respect Toyota/Lexus' power over the past 17 years. And I believe they consider Lexus a 1st-tier HELM in the US, and one to watch elsewhere, as it is fairly obvious Lexus has not applied itself in Europe/Japan with the ferver they have here. Taking over America is no small task, and Lexus can take one continent at a time, as far as I'm concerned. 3. Making pretty cars with high prices is fine, but if you can't sell them, like Lexus, Mercedes, BMW can, what have you got? Heritage is great. I'd rather have sales, cash, happy customers, and respect. Anything else will come only in time. 4. The 1st-tier HELMs in the US are Mercedes, BMW, Porsche, and Lexus. DrFill |
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Replying to: drfill (Jun 15, 2006 4:55 pm) Hey, Mets are unconscious! Hpowders… Tiger is 7 off the pace… he doesn’t do well in Westchester. There was a story today in our local paper about his 155-foot yacht which is parked in Mamaroneck harbor. So much for those friggin’ Buick ads. There was also a cute story about the family who owns a house that is very close to the 15th green. They have three rescued dogs (Spaniels) who bark at the golfers and that Tiger was playing with them during practice rounds. I’m wondering if they will cause a commotion during the tournament. 
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Replying to: blkhemi (Jun 15, 2006 1:47 pm) http://duboholic.com/2006/05/2008_audi_a7.htm Try this site for the same pictures that appear in Automobile and CAR. "Audi Nothing to Prove' |
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