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Sedans High End Luxury Cars
24700 messages, Last post on Dec 01, 2009 at 12:24 PM
You are in the Sedans Forum. Your Hosts are pat & karens
Let's try to define this forum as being limited to luxury performance vehicles where the mainstream version in a typical configuration has an MSRP of at least $60k.
A luxury vehicle with a base price of $59k qualifies because it would typically be bought with some additional equipment, bringing the MSRP over $60k.
Vehicles like the E, 5, A6, M, or GS, even if available in certain versions over $60k, don't qualify because they are cars from companies that have higher end cars in their lineups.
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Replying to: tagman (Jun 14, 2006 7:51 pm) Audi, if you build it, they will come!! This iteration of another CLS-esque car is better designed, at least in the pics, than some of the others. Mainly headroom will be better than even the CLS. And this car gets Audi's new 4.2L 450hp, direct injected, DSG-equipped V8. I saw a "unofficial" pic of the "sport" model of the car last month. All I can say is Audi must've been cross-shopping at AMG as the front and rear aprons look very MB to me, which is no bad thing. Looks like they also chopped off it's nose for a more smoother finish. I'll keep you posted on new pics, like the spy photo of the upcoming Q5 and '09 A8L..
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Replying to: lexusguy (Jun 15, 2006 1:14 pm) Most of aston legend is just baseless propaganda and fraud, just like most other british brands. Choicest words are used. "Storied marque", "world's best", "world beating", timeless elegance, refined, rare, elegant, unparalleled, glorious, legendary, unequaled, fabled and other non-sense. Fraudulent propaganda by sleazy british press and their cronies on East Coast this side of pond. Just like a medieval fisherman cries "Best fish" while selling a rotten one. If you think I am missing something you should point it out CLEARLY otherwise this "spades" thing is just an irresponsible ornament.
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Replying to: ljflx (Jun 15, 2006 1:45 pm) it will keep the competition honest and we get better vehicles. Looking forward to seeing how Toyota and Honda react to the heat currently being provided by Hyundai. |
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Replying to: blkhemi (Jun 15, 2006 1:47 pm) Audi, if you build it, they will come!! It (the A7) is surely gorgeous, and there were other pics on that site. I imagine you've seen them all by now. Personally, I like it much better than the CLS. My wish to Audi . . . send a gorgeous sports car to our market. TagMan
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I'm not trying to sound superior. My point is to point out the fundamental difference in mind set/priorities between the German/Japanese customer. I think Hpowers said it best when he pointed it out that Cyclone4 didn't even mention performance. If it helps, I do think that Lexus is more sophisticated a car than Buick but, FWIW I never mentioned Buick, That was the good Mr.Tagman. Again FWIW for me reliablility would comes as a lower priority than performance. Something that Lexus does well. I can live with some glitches to have a car drive a certain way that I feel appropriate. We can agree to disagree I suppose, didn't mean to push any buttons.
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Replying to: cyclone4 (Jun 15, 2006 11:55 am) I generally have a history of being fairly objective in my views of Mercedes and Lexus, and the other marques as well. But as I've said, it is not reasonable to have Lexus fans take massive amounts of credit for even the smallest things, and totally deny Mercedes the credit it deserves, and to further insult the Mercedes marque by trying to deny its heritage and history, and to ignore the value of its status and prestige, as though they no longer have any merit. They all do. There are MANY factors, not just the ones that Lexus is good at. The ones that Lexus is NOT historically good at matter too. So, it is ridiculaous to suddenly ban heritage or prestige, to infer that style is not that big a deal, or to dilute the standards for performance as though going quickly in a straight line is adequate. (THAT was why I used the Buick analogy, hope I didn't insult anyone). It seems reasonable that reliability is not EVERYTHING. Those other factors and performance do matter, IMO. I think you know what I am saying, here. TagMan
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Replying to: oac (Jun 15, 2006 11:32 am) Lets go trough the list one more time. Interior ergonomics – MB is a clear winner. Some might not like it at the first glance but after spending time in the car, you will understand how much better it is then anything from Japan. In terms of technology - MB is an innovator, unfortunately it does reflected on reliability, but Like Tagman stated MB clear winner. Lexus simply uses proven technology and it work in their favor in terms of reliability, but not in terms of Technological enhancements. New LS might change that, but again hybrid technology was tasted on other Toyota models and not an innovation at this point. Even Acura, without having presence in the HELM sector, was by far more involved in breakthrough technology. Not having any new technology to break, does not make Lexus a winner. Safety – MB would win this category as well but both cars are safe enough for a tie. Performance- clearly go to MB. Prestige – MB. Styling – subjective, but I think most will agree that MB is a winner. Price – Lexus. However if you look at the value, depending on your preferences, S class can be the best value on the market. In one of the reviews I think in R&T it won heads up campro with Rolls-Royce Phantom. No one in the right state of mind will compare LS to Phantom, don’t you think? After all, $150K 911 Turbo considered, by many, the best value on the market. I bet you thought it was Hyundai SonataJ S class is not only the better car by a mile, it also a better value and it’s 30K more expensive. Oak, I know you will probably disagree. However if you do, can you provide some explanation for your logic. Tagman clearly stated as why MB superior to Lexus, you on the other hand did not. One more thought, I might be out of line here, but I think that new LS looks similar to previous S class, which is a good thing. |
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Replying to: tagman (Jun 15, 2006 2:21 pm) Mercedes nevertheless builds fine cars because it still does well in many other helm criteria besides reliability. |
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Replying to: tagman (Jun 15, 2006 1:55 pm) And did you say sports car from Audi? Then the magic genie has just granted your wish: R8 and new TT(coupe, Cab, and hopefully the Shooting Brake). With the R8, you'll be able to get anything from a 3.6L V-6/DSG to a 5.0L V10/stick or DSG and a 6.5L V-12/stick or DSG(thank Heavens they opted against the cruel Lambo E-gear) with over 600hp, probably a smidge less than the Murcielago, for obvious reasons. That V-12 will also make it's way into the next gen A8's by virtue of smaller displacement(6.2L), but still with over 600-hp and with the engine sitting completely behind the front axle line, for improved handling and by virtue of the more complex but more compact 9-Speed autobox and DSG's. |
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We've got a world-class, 5-on-5, HELM Finals, right here! And here are your starting lineups: Air Europe: Merc Hpowders Tagman Designman BlkHemi Vs. Team Lexus Ljflx DrFill Oac LexusGuy Stevehilburn Cyclone (6th Man award-winner!) DrFill |
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