Last post on Jan 28, 2013 at 5:55 PM
You are in the Sedans
What is this discussion about?
Audi A8, BMW 7 Series, Jaguar XJ-Series, Lexus LS 460, Mercedes-Benz S-Class, Volkswagen Phaeton, Maserati Quattroporte, Mercedes-Benz CL-Class, Sedan
Let's try to define this forum as being limited to luxury performance vehicles where the mainstream version in a typical configuration has an MSRP of at least $60k.
A luxury vehicle with a base price of $59k qualifies because it would typically be bought with some additional equipment, bringing the MSRP over $60k.
Vehicles like the E, 5, A6, M, or GS, even if available in certain versions over $60k, don't qualify because they are cars from companies that have higher end cars in their lineups.
#16076 of 24726 Re: Well, Tag [tagman]
Jun 07, 2006 (8:41 pm)
I agree with you about the IS relative to the 3-Series, but not the LS vs. the 7-Series. I've driven the 7-Series a few times now and I can't see Lexus allowing their car to ride to like that in order to get BMW-level handling. The last LS430 I drove rode like it wasn't even touching the pavement, but it keeled over like and old battleship when asked to change direction. The total opposite of the last 745i Sport I drove. The new LS460's look might entice some BMW 7-Series intenders but I'm willing to bet the drive won't.
The GS is a lost cause against the 5-Series, it isn't even close.
BMW has long despised the Mercedes SL due to is success in that price bracket and its longevity, but they've yet to come with anything even remotely close, though the Z8 was a match for most SL models in performance. This time though I think they're serious. I like the idea of a Z6 better than them using "Z8" again. I hope the car comes to market before the next SL so MB can yet wallop their SL intender again with a new SL, say around 2010-11.
#16078 of 24726 Re: Well, Tag [merc1]
Jun 07, 2006 (8:52 pm)
I am fully aware of what you describe, but give it time. The problem is finding the sweet spot for combining performance and luxury, and I think Lexus is tuning in to it by increasing the performance a notch or two.
And I do think it will attract BMW buyers. They are not ALL die-hard performance nuts. Those that are will stay with BMW. Those with less of a requirement might make the switch.. . . especially as the gap closes.
#16079 of 24726 Re: Well, Tag [merc1]
Jun 07, 2006 (8:56 pm)
I know you've seen the upcoming BMW Z6 photo that's made its rounds. That car is a genuine SL heavyweight contender. Only legitimate contender I've EVER seen, merc.
#16081 of 24726 Update on Lexus, Toyota and Nissan thrown in for the heck of it
Jun 07, 2006 (9:38 pm)
Quick updates (all sourced from BestCar mag, Apr 10/06 and May 26/06)
Lexus GT450: Green-lighted for Oct 2007 release as an MY2008. 4.5L V10 500HP w/6MT (semi-auto), RWD, front-engine mounted. 12,000 rpm. Top speed close to 200mph. Priced at Y15Million - Y20Million (do the math ~Y100 = $1)
LS600hL: March 2007 release, as an early MY2008. AWD standard, 430HP, 5L V8. Priced at Y12M. Well, there u have it folks - price and release timeline from Japan source. FWIW, its priced cheaper than the S500L which retails for Y14M here in Japan.
LX550/LC140 series: Coming out March 2007, as an early MY2008. 5.5L V8 395HP (US-spec), or 4.7L 380HP LC (Japan-spec). The LC version in Japan will retail for Y6M. Price for the US Lexus version not known yet. Looks horrible, IMO. Unless you thirst for power, buy the current version. It sucks, style-wise, all IMO, of course. I know I'll be keeping my '03 LX470 for awhile now.
2008 Toyota Supra: Yes, folks it seems its coming real soon. Comes with the 4.6L V8 motor spec-ed out to be in the 380-400HP range output. Looks real sweet.... Gorgeous from the rear (no front view shown). If you go by looks and power, the Nissan GT-R should stomp all over it, but we'll see. My money is on the Nissan tho', sorry DrFill.
2008 Nissan GT-R: This is a monster of a car. Comes with a 3.7L v6 Turbo-charged, putting down a whopping 450HP to the pavement, and getting to 60 from a standstill in like 4 tics. Price set to ~Y8M (do the math folks). Gets here October 2007. Let the salivating begin in ernest... This car will take the US shores with a storm, that's my prediction. It looks great !!!!!
2008 Honda NSX: AWD, V10, 450-500HP, 6AT. No release date firmed up yet. This car sitting next to the GT-R is a mild-mannered, timid looking sports car. Period. The GT-R is that good-looking folks.
2008 Nissan Z370: Horrible-looking freshened Z, now with a 3.7L V6 rated at 330-350HP. Nothing much to inspire the soul to want one, IMO.
2008 Crown Majesta: This car was styled in the mold of the MB CLS. And I tell you, its a darn close match to the CLS, but looks quite nice, once you get past the copy thingy. The rear is not as droopy as the CLS, nor does it make rear passengers claustophobic. A nicer-looking variant of the CLS, IMO. Very nicely done by Toyota... Even spots the motor in the LS, and is similar to the LS460 in size. But priced real well at Y6Million - Y8Million, almost half the price of the 600hL. A steal, if you ask me. I'd even consider buying this car over the LS460 at this price.
2008 Crown Royal: Has the V6 3.5L 315HP DOHC motor, and is priced at Y3.5Million - Y6Million. This is the baby-LS looking car from front, but does not have the integrated exhaust into bumper rear, as in the LS and Majesta. Not a bad looking car, but don't expect to see one in the US, like forever... so my Japanese friends tell me. Sorry, Garyh.
Pics to follow when I get back to the US.
#16082 of 24726 Re: Computational Algorithms and Drug Safety [stevekilburn]
Jun 07, 2006 (10:07 pm)
SteveK, pls play nice. TagMan is a really cool guy, and there is no need to bash him. Hope you'd stop throwing flames around
Oac are you a Pharmacokineticist, PK/PD or are you into drug discovery and structural biology area.
I am a computational chemist by training. Up until last year, I hung around hard-core geeks in CADD (discovery & H2L, mostly) who are more at home with workstations than with work-people (if you get my drift) Recently, I have moved downstream in the biz, creating informatics software for predictive ADME (good drugs) and Tox (safe drugs), as well as metabolomics research (disease mgmt and clinical diagnostics). In my new job, we do AAPS, although I haven't attended one yet. In my previous life, you'd find me mostly in MedChem, CADD, Chemical Information Science, and Computers in Chemistry type outfits and meetings... If I do come to an AAPS maybe we'd get to see each other, eh ?
#16083 of 24726 Re: Well, Tag [drfill]
Jun 07, 2006 (10:22 pm)
As has been said countless times before, Lexus can't make BMWs, or cars of that ilk, so BMW should be safe from Lexus.
BMW makes performance cars with a dash of luxury, Mercedes is prestigious and luxurious, with a dash of sport, and Lexus just makes really strong cars that they know Americans want.
I think they will all prosper, in spite of each other, because they all hit the market at different angles and perspectives.
Mercedes has the prestigious heritage, so that helps.
BMW has the legendary sporting heritage.
Lexus has built a solid, sterling foundation, and is still evolving and growing as a company, so that is an asset.
The only way these companies will capsize is arrogance, or complacency. They are too good, and too far ahead of the competition to suffer any real damage due to attrition.
DrFill, Excellent summation and analysis. Sorry Tag, I gotta agree with Doc here. For now, only Nissan/Infiniti poses a threat to BMW, not Lexus/Toyota. BTW, I still believe that Lexus' main target is MB altho' if you listen to Toyota execs, you'd think otherwise. But if you look closely at the results of their releases, you'd see MB is still in their bulls-eye. The IS is the only car in the Lexus arsenal even remotely posing any competition to BMW. Yeah, I know LG will say the GS430, but huh ! Maybe someone would put a GS450h against a 530i or 545i, and it'd get smoked. Until Lexus disables the VDIM and puts in a stick in the GS, it will never mount any serious BMW threat.
#16084 of 24726 Re: Sources: Porsche, Hyundai make big gains in quality study [merc1]
Jun 07, 2006 (10:50 pm)
Massive new model rollouts tend to do that kind of thing to IQS results. Porsche was usually the top in terms of reliability among German carmakers, but the first year of Cayenne last year (2004-2005) really hurt them as the model accounted for more than half of Porsche sales.
MB was no doubt being hurt by all the new models over the past year.
I do agree with you however IQS tend to be more varied than LQS.
Jun 07, 2006 (10:57 pm)
"As has been said countless times before, Lexus can't make BMWs, or cars of that ilk, so BMW should be safe from Lexus. "
You really believe that ? Honestly i think Toyota/Lexus is pulling their punches in many markets to avoid an undeserved backlash. I think Lexus can engineer exactly what they want - when they want. They have a long term strategy to slowly establish themselves in certain niches.