Last post on Jan 28, 2013 at 5:55 PM
You are in the Sedans
What is this discussion about?
Audi A8, BMW 7 Series, Jaguar XJ-Series, Lexus LS 460, Mercedes-Benz S-Class, Volkswagen Phaeton, Maserati Quattroporte, Mercedes-Benz CL-Class, Sedan
Let's try to define this forum as being limited to luxury performance vehicles where the mainstream version in a typical configuration has an MSRP of at least $60k.
A luxury vehicle with a base price of $59k qualifies because it would typically be bought with some additional equipment, bringing the MSRP over $60k.
Vehicles like the E, 5, A6, M, or GS, even if available in certain versions over $60k, don't qualify because they are cars from companies that have higher end cars in their lineups.
Jun 05, 2006 (1:57 pm)
Hopefully.....HOPEFULLY, Lexus will offer the HPX concept as a replacement at some point, just a shade under $60k. A super-crossover that I loved in the 2003 NYIAS!
Diggin' the Merc GL! Very nice! hard to believe it shares genes with the R-Class, but you can even see it in the rear-quarter view. Good job!
Only problem is isn't this thing 5 years too late to the Full-size SUV party? If they built this when Caddy built the 2nd-gen Escalade, maybe Mercedes would have cornered that market? Not exactly Toyota-esque in reading the U.S. market, are they?
Jun 05, 2006 (2:04 pm)
Diggin' the Merc GL!
I took a very close look at the new GL last week. This is a PERFECT vehicle for the upcoming diesel. I will seriously consider it at that time.
#16009 of 24726 Old news (was Re: The other Bose [lexusguy])
Jun 05, 2006 (2:40 pm)
Sorry for the very late response. It's probably just clutter for most of you folks.
I couldn't resist having a look at:
The author appears to me to be pretty ignorant of relevant concepts of acoustics, audio, material science, and ... well physics in general. I'd be happy to elucidate on the fallacies in that url, upon request.
Jun 05, 2006 (3:28 pm)
This dissertation has been "out there" for quite a while.
Perhaps others will find it revealing as it exposes BOSE for what it is- the biggest over-priced rip-off in home audio.
Very happy with my Denon system which for $1000 runs rings around an equivalent Bose for $2500.
#16011 of 24726 Re: BlkHemi [drfill]
Jun 05, 2006 (5:27 pm)
Exactly right. If they would've brought out the vehicle at least close to the time of the bold and unique '02 Escalade, it probably would've been more of a tug-a-war than a single man's game, which the Escalade still arguably dominates.
I too was diggin' on the HPX crossover concept at NY in '03. I thought it to be a huge step foward for the company but came away thinking that they'll never build it.
Side note: I hear that BMW is going the route of MB and producing a full-sizer off of it's next-gen, car-like X5 platform in SC for a possible '08/'09 release. As the X5 abandon it's trucky character, the full size (likely to be called the X7 sources say) is said to measure up quite nicely with the GL/RR but a smidge smaller than the brawny 'Slade and QX56. And they also say that BMW will finally offer a 3rd row seat for both the X5/7. The powerplant choice will kick off the joint hybrid engine development with GM in this car to be trickled down to the next gen 7 and current 5 Series.
#16012 of 24726 Re: Misc ramblings...... [ljflx]
Jun 05, 2006 (5:31 pm)
Disaggregating car sales into old vs. new models and zeroing in on sales of existing models ("same store sales") is a nice piece of analysis. Slight (and only a slight) problem: retail stores don't usually have a relationship between the years open for sale and total sales figures as cars models do. I think that sales decline over time for a model. Not necessarily so for retail stores. So there will be always a dialectic between new sales for new models (new stores) and slowing sales for old models (existing stores).
#16013 of 24726 Re: Misc ramblings...... [blckislandguy]
Jun 05, 2006 (6:10 pm)
No question that cyclical model changes of existing cars/SUV's play a major role in sinking of one model and rising of another and keeping the checks and balances in place. But when you need new models altogether to keep raising the bar it is a costly approach. In this case MB needed to balance out that line-up with a bigger SUV/AWD offensive. But the R-class may have been a move that went too far and that investment may have been better suited to bringing the E and C new models in sooner. Naturally it is easy to Monday morning quarterback here. Personally I always thought the Lexus HPX would be a homerun so I can hardly fault MB for thinking the R investment would be a good one.
Big issue for Lexus with the next gen SUV's is how do you play the hybrid game. Their desire is to go for power and I see that working better with cars than SUV's. If I'm Lexus I don't play the HP war on hybrid SUV's and go big time for luxury and MPG. That will quickly re-ignite their SUV sales to strong growth and push them toward 400K annual unit sales.
#16014 of 24726 The key to big SUV's is DIESEL
Jun 05, 2006 (7:09 pm)
Diesel is the key to a big SUV.
The upcoming diesel GL will be a big hit, IMO. I expect to see Acura use a honda diesel in its MDX in the future and I would not be surprised to see Audi use a diesel soon in their new Q. I do not expect BMW would use a diesel as soon because they might be first offering their new hybrid sytem in their X5/X7 SUV's.
I think that the diesel makes more sense, however, because the SUV is so often used off-road and for towing, and a diesel with its power, torque, and fuel economy is well suited for these applications.
#16015 of 24726 Re: Misc ramblings...... [ljflx]
Jun 05, 2006 (8:18 pm)
If Mercedes' gains aren't "as impressive as they seem" then neither are Lexus'. This is why I don't get into sales too much here because Mercedes' sales are analyzed to death and there is always some type of implied problem no matter what they do, yet Lexus is in the same exact boat yet there isn't any implication of a problem there, only with MB.
Lexus' SUV sales are dead in the water as is the LS and the GS is also declining vs. last year which leaves the new ES and IS as the only bright spots. Saying that old IS was a extreme dud really doesn't make much difference. At least Mercedes got a boost last month from two existing models, the SL and SLK. The latter of which hasn't been face lifted or anything showed a big increase for May 06'. The E-Class which posted a healthy gain last month hasn't even seen the 07's hit the ground yet. So expect a big increase there also.
Question is does Lexus have any model that hasn't been replaced or updated posting any sales gains like Mercedes does??
It *seems* you're basically knocking (however subtly) MB for posting a gain based on new models being largely successful (except the R) which is what is supposed to happen when new models are introduced. What was that a while back about "replenish mode"? Just like Lexus' SUVs are declining while they concentrate on their cars, Mercedes cars will now start getting the attention because all of the SUV models are in place now. The new S is obvious, the updated E arrives next month and the new C is less than a year away. What more can they do?
Lexus is more or less, probably more so in the same boat my friend. Fact is that neither MB or Lexus would be posting gains this year without new or facelifted (in the case of MB) models.
#16016 of 24726 Re: Interesting reading............ [pat]
Jun 05, 2006 (8:32 pm)
Friday the 13th and its 6/6/06 in a few hours! Too much!