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Sedans High End Luxury Cars
24700 messages, Last post on Dec 01, 2009 at 12:24 PM
You are in the Sedans Forum. Your Hosts are pat & karens
Let's try to define this forum as being limited to luxury performance vehicles where the mainstream version in a typical configuration has an MSRP of at least $60k.
A luxury vehicle with a base price of $59k qualifies because it would typically be bought with some additional equipment, bringing the MSRP over $60k.
Vehicles like the E, 5, A6, M, or GS, even if available in certain versions over $60k, don't qualify because they are cars from companies that have higher end cars in their lineups.
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You seem to be developing a fetish for Lexus-bashing, with noticable signs of delusion and/or misrepresentations! If the 7 is "useless" because of it's mediocre standings in competitive comparisons, what would that make the E-Class, or A6, or 5-series? They were all beaten by the Lexus GS in C&D's last comparison of this class. The Lexus GS record is comparisons is rather impressive, and it will only get better when the new engines get here in less than 6 months. So let's concentrate on bashing one model at a time, since you seem to get mixed-up when you try to go "Two-for-Tuesday". DrFill
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Replying to: hpowders (May 30, 2006 11:33 pm) As a premier German manufacturer, it makes very good sense to offer an upper tier sedan like the 7. From a pure business standpoint it is important, but from the perspective of pure performance vs. luxury pampering, I think that the 7 accomplishes more than you are giving it credit for. Certainly if Mercedes did not introduce the new S, folks would be saying that MB is asleep at the switch, and if Lexus were not introducing the new LS460, folks would also be saying that Lexus is not keeping up with the competition. But . . . there is in fact a new S and a new LS is forthcoming . . . both remarkably improved vehicles. So as time goes, the 7 will ultimately find the sweet spot in its quest for the best combination of performance and luxury. For some, it already provides that, but you know very well what BMW is truly capable of and you expect more from them. Perhaps you remember a number of months ago, I asked the question on the forum which cars deliver the best combination of performance and luxury in a single vehicle. It was an interesting discussion, because they (performance and luxury) are often opposing forces. If my memory serves me, lexusguy suggested the Quattroporte as the best combination. Frankly, I think BMW is in a better position than most to ultimately combine performance and luxury in a single vehicle . . . and the 7 series may one day prove to be such a vehicle. I vote to keep it and let it continue to evolve over a long, healthy, and hopefully improving, life. Not too surprisingly, I know a number of guys who love their 7's (but what do they know?  ) Never give up on BMW! Even if you do buy a Lexus.  TagMan |
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Replying to: hpowders (May 30, 2006 11:33 pm) I wish they would get rid of that cursed gated shifter too. Dont hold your breath on that one. The LS has had a gated shifter from '95 on, and since the '04 RX330, all Lexus automatics have them. |
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Apparently they like the car quite a bit. It was interesting to see how flat the car remained even when Clarkson was pushing it sideways, especially for a non AMG car. Quite different than the Fifth Gear XJR. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ZWf8xk5Y5w&eurl= |
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Replying to: tagman (May 31, 2006 7:40 am) I do not buy into hype... altho' I hope to one day own a Bimmer, probably a convertible, but not bcos of the hype, but bcos I like it for what it is... a good driving car. |
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I'd like to launch the inaugural HELM Awards for many of the regulars on this forum. Yes, I know its not about us, but without us, this forum would not exist. So its all about us, our enthusiasm, our interests, our time, our presence and contributions to this forum on Edmunds that has made it one of the very best here. Without further ado, I'd like to hand out a few awards. Please feel free to critique, comment, re-award, re-arrange, etc... these awards. Mine are based on my personal observations after more than 3 years on this forum. For those not *winning* any awards, do not be offended - simply try harder next time 1) Longest HELM poster award: Merc1 2) Anything MB award: Merc1 3) Business-savvy poster: Ljflx 4) Anything Audi-esque award: Blkhemi (the man with the most cars around here) 5) Porsche/VW poster award: Designman (my personal fav poster, along with Len, btw) 6) Anything Lexus award: DrFill (tough choice, tho') 7) Most diverse HELM knowledge award: Lexusguy (hands down) 8) Most legalese award: GaryH (ok, I may need his legal argument someday, who knows ) 9) Least spoken, but most impactful award: Sam 10) Most impactful recent poster award: Tagman (Steve was too far off the wagon to even come close) Well, there you have it folks.... Hopefully, this will catch on somewhat and we can revisit these awards on an annual basis. Oh before I forget, one last award: 11) Most tolerant Edmunds' host: Pat_Host
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Replying to: drfill (May 31, 2006 4:13 am) If I find it to my liking, which admittedly would be a real long shot, I would order the basic car. All those fancy schmancy frills are unnecessary, IMO. When you guys criticize BMW, I don't deliver cheap, condescending psycho-analysis. I uh... beat my wife instead! The fact that you feel YOU must, says a lot more about YOU than it does me. |
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one day own a bimmer." Bash the car, and then say you want one? Gee, sounds like the same thing this poster criticized me for a while back!
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Replying to: oac (May 31, 2006 10:04 am) I think the “Ultimate Driving Machine” slogan has an addendum specifying it is within its perspective category. So a 3 series would be the “Ultimate” when viewed against its direct competition (C, IS, TL, A4 etc), the 7 series would be the “Ultimate” when viewed against its direct competition (A8, LS, S etc). So a 7 series being the “Ultimate” does not suggest supreme sports car of the universe capable of lapping Schumacher on the track. Also, the driving style (user ability) is immaterial to the vehicle’s abilities; just as many Ferrari’s creep along (when they are taken out).
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Replying to: tagman (May 31, 2006 7:40 am) My point is that in the HELM REALM, the emphasis ( using the typical HELM poster here as an extrapolating example of the buying public) on luxury is much more important than performance. BMW will never compete favorably given this mind-set. Luxury isn't their thing. Never was, and I hope, never will be. So why bother? Pull out and spend some of that creative energy on coming up with a really fine alternative to a Porsche Boxster or a 911. Looks like the MB S-Class just may be the one vehicle that manages to get right the delicate performance/luxury balance. A HELM we can all love around here! Looking forward to the US mags. testing of this vehicle. |
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