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High End Luxury Cars

24700 messages,  Last post on Dec 01, 2009 at 12:24 PM

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What is this discussion about? Audi A8, BMW 7 Series, Jaguar XJ-Series, Lexus LS 460, Mercedes-Benz S-Class, Volkswagen Phaeton, Maserati Quattroporte, Mercedes-Benz CL-Class, Sedan

Let's try to define this forum as being limited to luxury performance vehicles where the mainstream version in a typical configuration has an MSRP of at least $60k.

A luxury vehicle with a base price of $59k qualifies because it would typically be bought with some additional equipment, bringing the MSRP over $60k.

Vehicles like the E, 5, A6, M, or GS, even if available in certain versions over $60k, don't qualify because they are cars from companies that have higher end cars in their lineups.

#15866 of 24700 BMW 7 AND Harley,Its all image, thats all by stevekilburn May 30, 2006 (5:50 pm)
Replying to: hpowders (May 29, 2006 6:24 pm) BMWs have always been about image and brilliant propoganda. High on image and painfully short on substance.   There is not one BMW product which stands upto all the hype. The recent comparison Video posted, b/w A8, 7 and S clearly showed that with BMW its all talk and lousy action.   The video decisively debunked the MYTH of BMW handling. Replies to this message: reality2 (May 30, 2006 6:30 pm) hpowders (May 30, 2006 11:33 pm) tagman (May 31, 2006 7:40 am) and 13 more... lexusguy (May 31, 2006 8:06 am)
#15867 of 24700 Re: BMW 7 AND Harley,Its all image, thats all [stevekilburn] by reality2 May 30, 2006 (6:30 pm)
Replying to: stevekilburn (May 30, 2006 5:50 pm) Totally correct analysis. BMWs are all about hype and perception. They are a disappointment in terms of substance when compared to Audi and Mercedes-Benz. The 7-Series, like mentioned earlier, gets knocked about in the majority of world-wide comparisions when it goes up against the A8L, S-Class, the LS, and even the XJ. The 7-Series is due for a remake around '09 when the new A8 arrives so that will be interesting. Wonder if there any moles snooping around Inglostadt and Munich? The new S-Class wins because of all its gizmos, not necessarily a good thing. MB has to be careful as the S-Class is starting to gain an image of "overdone" and "overwraught." It's pretentious image will turn into one of crassness as the S-Class is beginning to look borish and arrogant (generally a BMW trait). The previous S-Class was more subtle and that made it elegant. Now it seems that MB has gone the way of Munich and has over-engineered and overstyled the car (just look at those fenders). It lacks a certain elegance in person. But the bigger the phalic symbol, the more attention I guess. Not real measure of achievement if that is what you are trying to show the world. Replies to this message: hpowders (May 30, 2006 11:33 pm) tagman (May 31, 2006 7:40 am) oac (May 31, 2006 10:04 am) and 11 more... hpowders (May 31, 2006 11:30 am) lexusguy (May 31, 2006 8:06 am)
#15868 of 24700 Why No Bentleys? by blckislandguy May 30, 2006 (6:31 pm)
With the huge expansion in the number of families with total assets (real estate plus liquid) exceeding 5,000,000 and approaching 10,000,000 I'm surprised that there isn't more discussion here of the Bentley Contintental GT and the Flying Spur. Heck there isn't even a Bentley board. I see a decent number of these cars in the Northeast and probably a lot of people who are looking at a new S Class could swing a Bentley. Based on a superficial look at the ads in the WSJ used Continental GTs are still fairly close to MSRP so someone is buying them.   One of my neighbors with an older Bentley quotes Jeremy Clarkson as saying that a "Flying Spur is simply a VW Phaeton in a custom suit". While that might be the case, it is a bespoke suit, the twin turbos cranking out 550 or so of HP do the suit justice, and the AWD will get you home from the office no matter how late you work on a February night.
#15869 of 24700 Re: diesel-hybrids and Audi LeMans [lexusguy] by tagman May 30, 2006 (9:23 pm)
Replying to: lexusguy (May 30, 2006 2:13 pm) I was at the local MB dealer just this past Friday and you are right that the CLS looks better in person, but it's still not my cup of tea even though it has quite striking lines. Frankly, I just like the S-Class better.   I was actually in to look at the SL and the GL. I am still impressed by the HP improvement in the newer 550 engine over the 500 it replaces. My local dealer was trying hard to make quite a deal on the '06 SL500, and it's no wonder with the '07 SL550 offering so many more ponies.   TagMan
#15870 of 24700 Re: BMW 7 AND Harley,Its all image, thats all [reality2] by hpowders May 30, 2006 (11:33 pm)
Replying to: reality2 (May 30, 2006 6:30 pm) As previously posted, I would like to see BMW discontinue the 7. I like the 7-series but I am partial to BMW. Most buyers here want to bathe in luxo-barges with rich Titanic-like interiors. This has never been what BMW is about. Many posters here care more for air-freshioned vibrating seats than the Ultimate Driving Experience. BMW is out of its element here. Since it loses all the HELM comparos, I believe the 7 has become a useless vehicle in the BMW stable-call it the BMW's Lexus GS.   BMW should stick to where they dominate: the 3, 5 and incomparable M's.   I am looking forward to driving the LS 460 this Fall to see if I notice an improvement in the vehicle's handling. I wish they would get rid of that cursed gated shifter too. Replies to this message: tagman (May 31, 2006 7:40 am) oac (May 31, 2006 10:04 am) ivan_99 (May 31, 2006 11:26 am) and 2 more... stevekilburn (Jun 01, 2006 1:31 pm) and 7 more... hpowders (May 31, 2006 11:30 am) lexusguy (May 31, 2006 8:06 am)
#15871 of 24700 Hpowders by drfill May 31, 2006 (4:13 am)
You seem to be developing a fetish for Lexus-bashing, with noticable signs of delusion and/or misrepresentations!       If the 7 is "useless" because of it's mediocre standings in competitive comparisons, what would that make the E-Class, or A6, or 5-series?      They were all beaten by the Lexus GS in C&D's last comparison of this class.      The Lexus GS record is comparisons is rather impressive, and it will only get better when the new engines get here in less than 6 months.      So let's concentrate on bashing one model at a time, since you seem to get mixed-up when you try to go "Two-for-Tuesday".      DrFill Replies to this message: hpowders (May 31, 2006 10:53 am)
#15872 of 24700 Re: BMW 7 AND Harley,Its all image, thats all [hpowders] by tagman May 31, 2006 (7:40 am)
Replying to: hpowders (May 30, 2006 11:33 pm) hpowders - you and I often agree on many topics that have come up on this forum. And while I understand your point about BMW being "out of its element" with regards to the 7, your suggestion that BMW drop the 7 is not a good idea, IMO.   As a premier German manufacturer, it makes very good sense to offer an upper tier sedan like the 7. From a pure business standpoint it is important, but from the perspective of pure performance vs. luxury pampering, I think that the 7 accomplishes more than you are giving it credit for. Certainly if Mercedes did not introduce the new S, folks would be saying that MB is asleep at the switch, and if Lexus were not introducing the new LS460, folks would also be saying that Lexus is not keeping up with the competition. But . . . there is in fact a new S and a new LS is forthcoming . . . both remarkably improved vehicles.   So as time goes, the 7 will ultimately find the sweet spot in its quest for the best combination of performance and luxury. For some, it already provides that, but you know very well what BMW is truly capable of and you expect more from them.   Perhaps you remember a number of months ago, I asked the question on the forum which cars deliver the best combination of performance and luxury in a single vehicle. It was an interesting discussion, because they (performance and luxury) are often opposing forces. If my memory serves me, lexusguy suggested the Quattroporte as the best combination.   Frankly, I think BMW is in a better position than most to ultimately combine performance and luxury in a single vehicle . . . and the 7 series may one day prove to be such a vehicle. I vote to keep it and let it continue to evolve over a long, healthy, and hopefully improving, life.   Not too surprisingly, I know a number of guys who love their 7's (but what do they know? )   Never give up on BMW! Even if you do buy a Lexus.   TagMan Replies to this message: oac (May 31, 2006 10:04 am) ivan_99 (May 31, 2006 11:26 am) hpowders (May 31, 2006 11:40 am) stevekilburn (Jun 01, 2006 1:31 pm) blkhemi (Jun 01, 2006 1:45 pm) and 5 more... hpowders (Jun 01, 2006 7:00 pm) hpowders (May 31, 2006 11:30 am)
#15873 of 24700 Re: BMW 7 AND Harley,Its all image, thats all [hpowders] by lexusguy May 31, 2006 (8:06 am)
Replying to: hpowders (May 30, 2006 11:33 pm) I am looking forward to driving the LS 460 this Fall to see if I notice an improvement in the vehicle's handling. I wish they would get rid of that cursed gated shifter too.   Dont hold your breath on that one. The LS has had a gated shifter from '95 on, and since the '04 RX330, all Lexus automatics have them.
#15874 of 24700 Top Gear S550 review by lexusguy May 31, 2006 (9:14 am)
Apparently they like the car quite a bit. It was interesting to see how flat the car remained even when Clarkson was pushing it sideways, especially for a non AMG car. Quite different than the Fifth Gear XJR.   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ZWf8xk5Y5w&eurl=
#15875 of 24700 Re: BMW 7 AND Harley,Its all image, thats all [tagman] by oac May 31, 2006 (10:04 am)
Replying to: tagman (May 31, 2006 7:40 am) The reality about BMWs is that while they are good driving cars, they are poor substitutes for real performance sport cars. They thrive on the marketing mantra of the Ultimate Driving Machine... far from it... Bimmers drive real well, no doubt, but ultimate driving machine ? Puleaze... The only ultimate driving machines in the BMW arsenal are the Ms. These are for real driving machines per excellence. Otherwise, the mainstream BMWs (non-SP) excel in rugged good looks (debatable sometimes), good performance inline engines, well balanced, sport-ish handling and excellent braking, all wrapped up in Bavarian-inspired marketing zeal. Buyers lap it up in droves, many of whom are poseurs who'd never take these cars to their extremes, in order to really test their ultimate in driving capabilities.   I do not buy into hype... altho' I hope to one day own a Bimmer, probably a convertible, but not bcos of the hype, but bcos I like it for what it is... a good driving car. Replies to this message: ivan_99 (May 31, 2006 11:26 am) hpowders (May 31, 2006 11:40 am) stevekilburn (Jun 01, 2006 1:31 pm) blkhemi (Jun 01, 2006 1:45 pm) stevekilburn (Jun 01, 2006 1:46 pm) and 4 more... hpowders (Jun 01, 2006 7:00 pm)

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