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High End Luxury Cars

24723 messages,  Last post on Jan 28, 2013 at 6:55 PM

You are in the Sedans Forum.

What is this discussion about? Audi A8, BMW 7 Series, Jaguar XJ-Series, Lexus LS 460, Mercedes-Benz S-Class, Volkswagen Phaeton, Maserati Quattroporte, Mercedes-Benz CL-Class, Sedan



Let's try to define this forum as being limited to luxury performance vehicles where the mainstream version in a typical configuration has an MSRP of at least $60k.

A luxury vehicle with a base price of $59k qualifies because it would typically be bought with some additional equipment, bringing the MSRP over $60k.

Vehicles like the E, 5, A6, M, or GS, even if available in certain versions over $60k, don't qualify because they are cars from companies that have higher end cars in their lineups.

Messages Page 1577 of 2473

#15754 of 24723 Re: Honda to offer diesel in the US [ljflx] by sv7887

May 24, 2006 (10:24 am)

Replying to: ljflx (May 24, 2006 7:42 am)
Hi Everyone,
  Diesel is a great technology. In Europe 50% of all new cars sold are Diesels. It's not a perfect solution, but a practical one to the current gas woes.
 
This talk about Lexus hiking prices is crazy. Lexus has always appealed to the "Objective" buyer. Oppressive price hikes would simply eliminate the Value that the LS has over the S Class. I would have bought a S Class a long time ago, had the LS430 been priced at that level.
 
Lexus has done the right thing, in gradually raising the price. The consumer doesn't take kindly to a sudden price hike. However, as Lexus has raised prices, the LS has gotten even better. People will pay for increased functionality.
 
Given that Lexus is trying to compete in Europe I doubt they'll be able to price themselves at the Germans level. I was just in the UK and had an opportunity to read some of their car mags..
 
Their view of Lexus is almost OPPOSITE of what we read in US Publications. Can you believe it? I read a brief review of the LS and they downgraded it on driving dynamics.
 
It seems to confirm my view that Lexus appeals to the objective buyer, and Mercedes, BMW to the subjective buyer. I don't think Lexus buyers are looking for something that will provoke emotion. On the other hand, Euro car buyers want something that provokes emotion. It's just a difference in perspective I think.
 
The LS460 looks great, I have no doubt it will be a winner. I wish they had made AWD an option on the gasoline car, though. At least for the US market it's an important option to have.
 
As for the L-Finesse theme, I'm not a big fan. While the LS looks great, the ES is a total letdown. The new car barely has any wood in it..The older car had a much nicer cabin to it. From a drivetrain perspective, I'm sure the new ES is a big improvement, but from purely a style perspective I find it disappointing.
 
My 1992 LS400 is nearing 100K miles. I replaced the tires with Bridgestone Turanza LS-V's and the car's ride is amazing. Quiet at 100 MPH and handles well.
 
The S430 hasn't broken down yet..lol..It's a great car, I'm really enjoying it. It's the kind of car where you deliberately take a longer way to go home. You really don't want to put it back in the garage. I miss some of the technology the Lexus had: Bluetooth, Backup Camera, and Parking Radar, but the S430 has enough toys to keep me occupied.
 
I'm watching the prices of the 2003 Jaguar XJ8 fall to the mid 20K range..It's a great value, especially since a lot of those cars have only 25-35K on them. It's the last of the timeless design style cars. My wife will really kill me this time if I bought one.
 
I got away with the Mercedes because of my son, but I can't blame the Jag on him!
 
-Sam

#15755 of 24723 Re: Honda to offer diesel in the US [ljflx] by tagman

May 24, 2006 (11:18 am)

Replying to: ljflx (May 24, 2006 7:42 am)
lj - liked both of your posts. Always seem to agree with and appreciate most of your business analysis. On this one about the diesels, the increasing advantage that diesels will have is the bio-fuel trend that seems to be gaining larger corporate and political attention. The smoother and quieter and cleaner fuel-efficient diesels will definately yank in more market share, but again, this bio-fuel thing may end up to be much bigger than anyone would have thought. To be seen, but certainly an added potential advantage.
 
While I support both hybrid and diesel alternatives, I am now more and more leaning towards diesels, and as soon as the right product is offered I will purchase a new generation diesel powered vehicle.
 
I was not aware as your linked article pointed out that Honda's reliability of their diesel was so good when compared to the German's diesels. Impressive.
 
It's the waiting that is sometimes painful.
 
TagMan

#15756 of 24723 Re: DOC, and Toyota [tagman] by oac

May 24, 2006 (11:25 am)

Replying to: tagman (May 23, 2006 8:44 pm)
OK, I'll explain it to you. The Japanese have a mixed success with sports cars, don't they? Gosh, the original Z was a smashing success only to become too fat. So the Mazda RX7 rekindled that fire, but only for a while cause they killed their own car as well. The Supra was a semi-lux sports cruiser, but never had the top notch handling it deserved. Honda could only come up with a Prelude, so there was NOTHING from then until the more recent S2000, which sells in small numbers. Mazda hit paydirt with the gutless but cute Miata, but ultimately never evolved the car. The Toyota MR2 project never had the proper corporate support. The NSX was one of the most revolutionary of all of the Japanese sports cars, but it barely sold. The replacement will likely be a V10 super sports car, but will it sell any better? The RX8 is goofy and the newest Nissan Z is still fat, although not bad looking. Nothing from Lexus at all, how 'bout that!
  
The SUV's were HOT HOT and it made enough business sense to capture the market. Interesting is the evolution within that segment. And it keeps changing. The little RAV4 is now bigger and more powerful and the Highlander will be replaced with a BIGGER one (maybe based on the new Camry). The FJ Cruiser is an unknown, because it was developed to compete with a vehicle that died during the FJ's development, namely the Hummer. It may possibly steal away ALL of that type of market and end up competing directly with Jeep. The Sequoia was hot until gas prices shot up because it is a gas-sucking V8 with seats that won't fold flat, but still a poor man's TLC. The 4-Runner is stuck in a time warp.
  
Basically, Toyota's SUV strategy is like this: "Circle the wagons . . . we'll surround 'em!"
  
You or I might not like the sports car to SUV ratio, but Toyota's bottom line sure does.
 
Been lurking for awhile and found this post of yours to be such an excellent summation I couldn't resist acknowledging !!! Pure genius, Tagman.... If you were on the Lexican side, we'd cream the German fans club all the time in debates on this board....

#15757 of 24723 Re: DOC, and Toyota [oac] by designman

May 24, 2006 (12:49 pm)

Replying to: oac (May 24, 2006 11:25 am)
If you were on the Lexican side, we'd cream the German fans club all the time in debates on this board....
 
No way. We got my anchor man Merc. He goes yard with all of the batting-practice fastballs you Lexicans throw at him. Tagman's on our side. Hands off, buster!
 

#15758 of 24723 Re: Honda to offer diesel in the US [tagman] by ljflx

May 24, 2006 (12:54 pm)

Replying to: tagman (May 24, 2006 11:18 am)
Tag,
 
Still bullish? Personally I've never seen valuations this low in such a great economic climate. Market is badly oversold but I can see why. Bernanke needs experience, better public diction and he may overdue the rate hikes and oil remains too high. We need relaxation in one of those two items and then we should move up strongly again. I don't think we'd have had this late setback if Greenspan was still in charge or if it happened it would have been much milder in size and scope.

#15759 of 24723 ??? by drfill

May 24, 2006 (1:37 pm)

Whatever. Tag didn't tell me anything I didn't already know.
   
   My point was, did Toyota need another SUV more than a new Sports car? Bear in mind Toyota said we'll build one, or the other. Did they make the right choice?
 
   With 6 SUvs, if you haven't got the market surrounded, you've screwed up! The 4Runner is already one of the top 4X4s, but with it's sales fading, was there really a pent-up demand for a 2-door?
 
   Are full-on 4X4s still HOT, HOT? If they sell 70-80k FJ Cruisers, I'll agree with ya! I don't see that in my crystal ball.
 
   Is the FJ some runaway train of hot press?
 
   Or is a 2009 Camaro concept setting the auto world on fire?
   
   DrFill

#15760 of 24723 Are You Nuts Dawg? by hpowders

May 24, 2006 (1:41 pm)

"We will cream the German Fan Club."
 
We certainly don't need any help.
We are not insecure as you Lexicans, with your voluminous posts skewing reality as you see it, as Merc1 has to constantly remind you.
 
We let the international sales figures and world-wide prestige of BMW and MB do the talking for us.
You can HAVE Tagman (no offence to Tagman intended) and with all his great debating skills, It wouldn't change a darn thing.
 
Lexus has a long way to go to match BMW and MB in any of the above.
 
Sorry, but that's just the way it is.
 
Given all that, I will be driving the LS 460 this Fall.
If I like it I may even get one, but that still doesn't change any of the above.

#15762 of 24723 Re: Honda to offer diesel in the US [ljflx] by oac

May 24, 2006 (2:53 pm)

Replying to: ljflx (May 24, 2006 12:54 pm)
Still bullish? Personally I've never seen valuations this low in such a great economic climate. Market is badly oversold but I can see why. Bernanke needs experience, better public diction and he may overdue the rate hikes and oil remains too high. We need relaxation in one of those two items and then we should move up strongly again. I don't think we'd have had this late setback if Greenspan was still in charge or if it happened it would have been much milder in size and scope.
 
A little off-topic, but want to chime in here...
 
Len, we are in an economy that is, at best, at a standstill waiting for a shoe to drop. That shoe could either be higher interest rates that could put the skids to real estate market, or foreign govt dump of our currency. Then what ? Methinks the equity market is doing a head fake and pricing the weaknesses of the economy into the market. As an investor, I am going into CASH, putting one of my houses up for sale this summer and holding on to the cash for as long as possible. I am also re-arranging my stock portfolio to increase the money market proportion. Cash is going to be king in the 2007 economy. I'd not bet on the stock market.... methinks its on a long slow ride DOWNHILL.... Put another way, the Dow will see 10,000 before it sees 12,000. That's my bet, but I've been wrong before and lost a bundle back in 2000/2001 Not going to wait around for it to crash again... Learnt a great lesson in the last crash.
 
Now back to our regularly scheduled debates...

Messages Page 1577 of 2473

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